The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics)
Sometimes it can be interesting to see articles about the movement of large amounts of BTC and attempting to try to figure out where the coins are going?  Are they being transferred to different owners?  Are they going to exchanges?

The below linked article talks about the movement of more than 300,000 BTC which would have a market value of about $3billion.

https://dailyhodl.com/2019/07/29/massive...six-hours/

There was a whale alert set of tweets, too.
 

[Image: ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fnsa40.casimages.com%2Fi...QQTXna0khQ]
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Here's an entertaining article that talks about some recent and ongoing discussion regarding the creation of a satoshi symbol.

https://cryptoslate.com/the-satoshi-the-...wn-symbol/
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I understand that sometimes there are other coins out there that try to use bitcoin's name or they try to mislead people (especially newbies) into thinking that either the fake bitcoins (bcash variants) are the real bitcoin or that they have some kind of ability to become the new or replacement bitcoin.

The below-linked article that came out yesterday shows how many leagues ahead bitcoin is, and largely those other projects are largely wannabes and wishful thinker (bagholders) rather than having actual facts to back them up... 

NONETHELESS there are holders of those coins in those other projects who spout out all kinds of nonsense while hoping and hoping and hoping that their coin will be pumped - which sometimes does happen when those coins have such a low liquidity as compared with bitcoin.

Of course, bitcoiners would like our coin to pump too, but there is a whole hell of a lot more solid fundamentals backing up bitcoin, as compared to the imitators who are constantly sending out misinformation or otherwise spouting out irrelevancies to capture more dumb money into their projects.

https://coinmetrics.substack.com/p/a-com...of-bitcoin

[Image: ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FboUem3f.p...ZPOT40Ux2w]
Just for another sneek peak the article's summary:

>>>>>>>>Summary
Although BSV and BCH have some of the desirable features of a medium of exchange asset, like low transaction fees, this has not yet led to a large increase in activity as compared to BTC. Both BCH and BSV still only have a small fraction of the usage of BTC when measured by metrics like adjusted transfer value and active addresses.

Furthermore, BSV and BCH are increasingly being used as ways to store data on chain (often without an associated economic transaction), and not as a medium of exchange. BSV, in particular, is predominantly being used as a way to record data on-chain, with over 94% of transactions containing OP_RETURN, a majority of which come from a single weather application. BSV may ultimately be used as a data storage blockchain, likely due to their removal of the size restriction on OP_RETURN transactions. 

Additionally, although both BCH and BSV have larger maximum block sizes than BTC, they have not yet utilized that extra space. For the most part, BCH and BSV’s daily average block size has remained well below BTC’s 1MB average. 

Both BSV and BCH have had blocks that have exceeded BTC’s maximum blocks. BSV blocks, in particular, are increasingly being filled by OP_RETURN transactions. BSV and BCH’s increased block size may become a factor if either gain adoption as a data storage blockchain. But it does not appear to currently be a factor in terms of being used as a medium of exchange. 

Additionally, BTC currently has a big lead over BCH and BSV in the four metrics we used to measure security. BTC has over 95% of the hash rate market share (amongst BTC, BCH, and BSV) as of July, 2019. 

BTC also dominates in terms of daily mining revenue. BTC has over 30 and 60 times more daily mining revenue than BCH and BSV, respectively. This will become even more of an issue as block rewards continue to halve, as BCH and BSV’s total transaction fees are negligible compared to BTC’s. 

We also found that if BTC miners were to theoretically attack BCH they could rewrite ten days of the blockchain in 7 hours. If they were instead to attack BSV, they could rewrite it in 3 hours.

As of now, BCH and BSV are not gaining real usage over BTC as a medium of exchange, and are not utilizing their larger block sizes. BTC also remains a much more secure blockchain than both BCH and BSV. It remains to be seen whether BCH and BSV can take more of BTC’s market share moving forward.<<<<<<<<<<<
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(07-30-2019, 01:24 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote: Sometimes it can be interesting to see articles about the movement of large amounts of BTC and attempting to try to figure out where the coins are going?  Are they being transferred to different owners?  Are they going to exchanges?

The below linked article talks about the movement of more than 300,000 BTC which would have a market value of about $3billion.

https://dailyhodl.com/2019/07/29/massive...six-hours/

There was a whale alert set of tweets, too.
 

[Image: ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fnsa40.casimages.com%2Fi...QQTXna0khQ]

big money is entering, and whales are the only ones who can fulfill those orders.
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(07-30-2019, 06:18 AM)Swordfish1010 Wrote:
(07-30-2019, 01:24 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote: Sometimes it can be interesting to see articles about the movement of large amounts of BTC and attempting to try to figure out where the coins are going?  Are they being transferred to different owners?  Are they going to exchanges?

The below linked article talks about the movement of more than 300,000 BTC which would have a market value of about $3billion.

https://dailyhodl.com/2019/07/29/massive...six-hours/

There was a whale alert set of tweets, too.
 

[Image: ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fnsa40.casimages.com%2Fi...QQTXna0khQ]

big money is entering, and whales are the only ones who can fulfill those orders.

I still don't know.

I still tentatively believe that there are going to be some difficulties in the coming years to be able to fill BIG orders like those, and yeah we hardly know particulars about whether there are actual buyers involved, and if so how many, or whether it is merely the moving around of coins and taking some advantages of our currently seeming low transaction fees and decently quick transaction times (that would only be if the coins were moved by the same person to another of his addresses).
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Here's some interesting information about the Mayer multiple for any guys interested.

https://mayermultiple.info/

A discussion point on the mayermultiple website:

>>>>>>>>>Why 2.4 ?
Simulations performed by Trace Mayer determined that in the past, the best long-term results were achieved by accumulating Bitcoin whenever the Mayer Multiple was below 2.4. 
Since the simulations were based on historical data, they are purely educational and should not be the basis of any financial decision.<<<<<<<

Here's a chart that seems to have been created by mindrust (?) showing recent BTC price performance in terms of highlighting the 2.4 level.

[Image: ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FbTYsBhq.p...FdygYWCOaQ]


Essentially the above chart shows that frequently when BTC prices are ramping up for an exponential and overvalued run, BTC price movement will test the 2.4 levels and in 2017 there were two test of the 2.4 level before breaking above 2.4.  $14k appears to have been a test of 2.4, and certainly as the Mayer multiple website suggests, there are no guarantees that history is going to repeat itself with any kind of meaningful precision.
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Even though the below linked article is not really new news, it is an interesting outline that just came out today in which is argues that USA government officials are coming to a realization that banning bitcoin is not really one of the cards that they might be able to play.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ktorpey/201...9eeb4d3e31

None-the-less in spite of this article, there are senate bank committee hearings about the regulation of crypto currencies that are scheduled for this Thursday, so we will have to see how the news plays out during those hearings, if they take place and the extent to which the discussion of bitcoin might be included.
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By the way, regarding my post above, it seems that the Senate bank committee hearings on blockchain are taking place today... so for some reason, I got the date wrong. Seems that they are relatively bullish about bitcoin, and could explain a little bit of the price rise today... but we will see how matters progress.  I am not actually watching them, just seeing postings about the hearings, here and there.

On a longer term vision, we can see that there remains decent overall BTC price performance, as compared with various kinds of traditional investments.

https://twitter.com/BitKrabs/status/1156516105734840320

[Image: EAzFRF4X4AAWkjW?format=jpg&name=small]
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Or perhaps LedgerX's today launch of a physically backed futures trade for bitcoin is what is causing some BTC bullishness?

https://www.coindesk.com/beating-bakkt-l...ures-in-us


Pro-bitcoin news in china too, apparently.

https://twitter.com/Excellion/status/115...32/photo/1
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Thanks JayJuanGee for all your invaluable news, explanations, and links to informative websites.
I highly appreciate it all.
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(07-31-2019, 07:23 PM)Beentheredonethat Wrote: Thanks JayJuanGee for all your invaluable news, explanations, and links to informative websites.
I highly appreciate it all.

Oh.  No problem.  I spend a decent amount of time on a regular basis reading through various bitcoin news, so I don't mind sharing some of the current event topics, and bitcoin related topics that I find interesting.  

The articles and information that I share will tend to be bullish about bitcoin overall and thereby reflect some of my own sentiment; however, sometimes i don't mind sharing some contrary information too in order to provide a potential springboard for bitcoin-related conversation.

Below is linked an interesting article from today asserting that the SEC is going to begin running nodes on the bitcoin and ethereum blockchains.  Some of the purposes of these running of nodes would be to monitor and surveil some blockchain activities - purportedly in the interest(s) of the American people.

https://cryptoiq.co/the-sec-set-to-begin...eum-nodes/
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Fed cut interest rates today, race to the bottom confirmed. Bullish for bitcoin.
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(07-31-2019, 10:01 PM)Swordfish1010 Wrote: Fed cut interest rates today, race to the bottom confirmed. Bullish for bitcoin.

You are surely referring to some kind of macro-dynamic, yet I am not sure how much of any kind of difference such a change can make for bitcoin.

I am thinking that some of the short term price performance is still trying to sort through bitcoin versus the drag on the whole space that comes through the various other cryptos.

About a year ago, I thought that for sure there was going to be at least one more BIG run for various alt coins and ICOs and a lot of the shitcoin money in the space, and so when the crash down to $3k came, there was a certain kind of consideration that Bitcoin would have to go lower in order to purge more shitcoin and dumb money out of the space; however, the recent trend seems to have been for bitcoin to pump and then shitcoins to not pump as much and then some of this current consolidation might be shaking more weakhands and shitcoins out of the space that could take a decent amount of time to play out.

But, yeah, how much does macro-news affect BTC's short, medium or longer term price performance when BTC is kind of gearing up for the halvening that is coming up in May 2020 and purging shitcoins and reacting to regulatory discussions that also tangentially involve bitcoin with worries about Libra.... Of course, these play together and we cannot just get upwards movement without some decent consolidation and questioning about whether the break will be up or down from our current $10k consolidation area?
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Here's the end of the month update from Dunkelheit667 showing that July was a red month, but also showing 
BTC's monthly and yearly price performance back to 2011

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=...sg52022447
[Image: ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FtUSOQAS.p...ULUR37F9YQ]
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(08-01-2019, 12:56 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:
(07-31-2019, 10:01 PM)Swordfish1010 Wrote: Fed cut interest rates today, race to the bottom confirmed. Bullish for bitcoin.

You are surely referring to some kind of macro-dynamic, yet I am not sure how much of any kind of difference such a change can make for bitcoin.

I am thinking that some of the short term price performance is still trying to sort through bitcoin versus the drag on the whole space that comes through the various other cryptos.

About a year ago, I thought that for sure there was going to be at least one more BIG run for various alt coins and ICOs and a lot of the shitcoin money in the space, and so when the crash down to $3k came, there was a certain kind of consideration that Bitcoin would have to go lower in order to purge more shitcoin and dumb money out of the space; however, the recent trend seems to have been for bitcoin to pump and then shitcoins to not pump as much and then some of this current consolidation might be shaking more weakhands and shitcoins out of the space that could take a decent amount of time to play out.

But, yeah, how much does macro-news affect BTC's short, medium or longer term price performance when BTC is kind of gearing up for the halvening that is coming up in May 2020 and purging shitcoins and reacting to regulatory discussions that also tangentially involve bitcoin with worries about Libra.... Of course, these play together and we cannot just get upwards movement without some decent consolidation and questioning about whether the break will be up or down from our current $10k consolidation area?

It just shows that there is no other option the central banks have other than continuing to cut rates until we eventually get to negative rates like in Europe today. This is clown world stuff. You let someone borrow money from you and they pay you back less money than they borrowed with negative interest rates. It just shows how bad of shape the world is in and I view bitcoin as a hedge against all of this madness. I say it's bullish for bitcoin because safe haven money will start to funnel in.
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(08-01-2019, 04:00 AM)Swordfish1010 Wrote:
(08-01-2019, 12:56 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:
(07-31-2019, 10:01 PM)Swordfish1010 Wrote: Fed cut interest rates today, race to the bottom confirmed. Bullish for bitcoin.

You are surely referring to some kind of macro-dynamic, yet I am not sure how much of any kind of difference such a change can make for bitcoin.

I am thinking that some of the short term price performance is still trying to sort through bitcoin versus the drag on the whole space that comes through the various other cryptos.

About a year ago, I thought that for sure there was going to be at least one more BIG run for various alt coins and ICOs and a lot of the shitcoin money in the space, and so when the crash down to $3k came, there was a certain kind of consideration that Bitcoin would have to go lower in order to purge more shitcoin and dumb money out of the space; however, the recent trend seems to have been for bitcoin to pump and then shitcoins to not pump as much and then some of this current consolidation might be shaking more weakhands and shitcoins out of the space that could take a decent amount of time to play out.

But, yeah, how much does macro-news affect BTC's short, medium or longer term price performance when BTC is kind of gearing up for the halvening that is coming up in May 2020 and purging shitcoins and reacting to regulatory discussions that also tangentially involve bitcoin with worries about Libra.... Of course, these play together and we cannot just get upwards movement without some decent consolidation and questioning about whether the break will be up or down from our current $10k consolidation area?

It just shows that there is no other option the central banks have other than continuing to cut rates until we eventually get to negative rates like in Europe today. This is clown world stuff. You let someone borrow money from you and they pay you back less money than they borrowed with negative interest rates. It just shows how bad of shape the world is in and I view bitcoin as a hedge against all of this madness. I say it's bullish for bitcoin because safe haven money will start to funnel in.

Fair enough.  I was just thinking that it is more or less same ole same ole, and in that regard, I am not sure if it is going to have any effect that is different than what was already expected.  In other words, we already expected various governments to continue to be monetarily irresponsible.

There have been several austrian economists arguing that the only real ways out of bitcoin prospering is for governments to become more responsible with their money in terms of gold standard or something like that, and surely bitcoin is going to cause them to become more responsible, even though it might take 50 to 100 years to play out.. but perhaps in the meantime, we are likely to see more and more value gravitating into bitcoin, and maybe the effect seems gradual and gradual and gradual, then all of a sudden.  I guess I am not really disagreeing with you about anything except for the extent to which we might see the effects in the shorter term, even though we know that more and more the word is getting out, not only about bitcoin increasing in value, but that it is likely a more hard money than we have ever experienced, and so in that regard the effects are likely ongoing and likely building.
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(08-01-2019, 04:16 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:
(08-01-2019, 04:00 AM)Swordfish1010 Wrote:
(08-01-2019, 12:56 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:
(07-31-2019, 10:01 PM)Swordfish1010 Wrote: Fed cut interest rates today, race to the bottom confirmed. Bullish for bitcoin.

You are surely referring to some kind of macro-dynamic, yet I am not sure how much of any kind of difference such a change can make for bitcoin.

I am thinking that some of the short term price performance is still trying to sort through bitcoin versus the drag on the whole space that comes through the various other cryptos.

About a year ago, I thought that for sure there was going to be at least one more BIG run for various alt coins and ICOs and a lot of the shitcoin money in the space, and so when the crash down to $3k came, there was a certain kind of consideration that Bitcoin would have to go lower in order to purge more shitcoin and dumb money out of the space; however, the recent trend seems to have been for bitcoin to pump and then shitcoins to not pump as much and then some of this current consolidation might be shaking more weakhands and shitcoins out of the space that could take a decent amount of time to play out.

But, yeah, how much does macro-news affect BTC's short, medium or longer term price performance when BTC is kind of gearing up for the halvening that is coming up in May 2020 and purging shitcoins and reacting to regulatory discussions that also tangentially involve bitcoin with worries about Libra.... Of course, these play together and we cannot just get upwards movement without some decent consolidation and questioning about whether the break will be up or down from our current $10k consolidation area?

It just shows that there is no other option the central banks have other than continuing to cut rates until we eventually get to negative rates like in Europe today. This is clown world stuff. You let someone borrow money from you and they pay you back less money than they borrowed with negative interest rates. It just shows how bad of shape the world is in and I view bitcoin as a hedge against all of this madness. I say it's bullish for bitcoin because safe haven money will start to funnel in.

Fair enough.  I was just thinking that it is more or less same ole same ole, and in that regard, I am not sure if it is going to have any effect that is different than what was already expected.  In other words, we already expected various governments to continue to be monetarily irresponsible.

There have been several austrian economists arguing that the only real ways out of bitcoin prospering is for governments to become more responsible with their money in terms of gold standard or something like that, and surely bitcoin is going to cause them to become more responsible, even though it might take 50 to 100 years to play out.. but perhaps in the meantime, we are likely to see more and more value gravitating into bitcoin, and maybe the effect seems gradual and gradual and gradual, then all of a sudden.  I guess I am not really disagreeing with you about anything except for the extent to which we might see the effects in the shorter term, even though we know that more and more the word is getting out, not only about bitcoin increasing in value, but that it is likely a more hard money than we have ever experienced, and so in that regard the effects are likely ongoing and likely building.

I studied austrian economics in school so I view the world through this lens. Sadly most Austrian economists don't understand bitcoin and are still stuck on gold. This is how I view it; an unlimited supply of fiat currency is competing for a limited supply of bitcoin. This unlimited money supply is going to keep increasing, promoting high consumption behavior and penalizing savers.
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(08-01-2019, 04:30 AM)Swordfish1010 Wrote:
(08-01-2019, 04:16 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote: [edited out]
I studied austrian economics in school so I view the world through this lens. Sadly most Austrian economists don't understand bitcoin and are still stuck on gold. This is how I view it; an unlimited supply of fiat currency is competing for a limited supply of bitcoin. This unlimited money supply is going to keep increasing, promoting high consumption behavior and penalizing savers.

Most of the Austrian economists into bitcoin seem to get it... hahahahahahaha

Yeah, it is going to take a decent amount of time, and gold can be a very appealing asset class for a large number of reasons in terms of some of the difficulties to manipulate the physical gold supply, but the BIGGER financial institutional incumbents have figured out ways to manipulate gold through the paper renditions which ultimately seems to affect the overall gold market.

Of course, not only is bitcoin a much superior asset in terms of its scarcity, portability, divisibility, authenticity verification and easier security, it is also superior in terms of being able to timely make claims upon getting the real deal rather than allowing third parties to hold it. Even though some of the systems for holding bitcoin can be a little bit complicated and not very user-friendly, some of those custody systems are getting a lot easier.. Surely a lot of value can be easily held on a hardware wallet, such as a trezor, and of course there are a lot of others, too.

In essence, there are surely going to be the same kinds of supply manipulation attempts in bitcoin, and many of us (likely you are included in such line of thinking) who believe that the status quo whale manipulators (and financial institutions) are going to be much more challenged in their abilities to manipulate bitcoin through such paper devices, because the more perception of paper manipulation, the more that HODLers will be incentivized to claim their bitcoin which would likely cause a higher price for privately held bitcoin as compared with those held through 3rd parties. Furthermore, 3rd parties might be incentivized to create auditing systems in order to inspire confidence that they actually have the number of bitcoins that they claim to have.

Don't get me wrong, some of these manipulation prevention systems are not in place at the moment, and it could take a large number of years to evolve such superior systems and for the buyers of bitcoin not to get screwed a decent number of times in the evolution of these systems, but honeybadger bitcoin is going to persist, even through some of these likely ongoing attempts at manipulation, and I would NOT live so pie in the sky to believe that no fractional reserves or rehypothecation will not be practiced or allowed in bitcoin, but I do believe that it is going to remain a lot more difficult to engage in such supply manipulation practices in such high levels as has been allowed through traditional finance systems including the level that it has been tolerated through paper versions of gold (and silver for that matter).

In essence, it is way the fuck more difficult to claim your gold or silver as compared with bitcoin, and surely bitcoin could be claimed in a matter of minutes - absent systems that some customers might agree to that lock up their bitcoin and those kinds of locking up and difficult to verify systems are going to likely be increasingly be frowned upon by the market and the bitcoin HODLers if it appears that such custodians of bitcoin are engaging in practices that attempt to dilute bitcoin's money supply and/or artificially manipulate bitcoin's price in the downward direction.
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Here's a nice little article describing some behind the scenes drama in the bitcoin space, at least in respect to battles that are occurring between two shitcoin centralization fraudster bcash figures who are proclaiming to be leaders of the "better bitcoin"

https://decrypt.co/8155/uk-court-strikes...libel-suit

Likely bitcoin gives few shits about the bitcoin wannabe leaders fighting it out, and sometimes shows the foolishness of the lack of strength of some of these bitcoin attack vectors, even while knowing that some people still get tricked into investing into the sham coins because they get fooled by unit price and some of the other misleading representations of the various bcash variant marketers.
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(07-31-2019, 06:05 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote: Or perhaps LedgerX's today launch of a physically backed futures trade for bitcoin is what is causing some BTC bullishness?

https://www.coindesk.com/beating-bakkt-l...ures-in-us


Pro-bitcoin news in china too, apparently.

https://twitter.com/Excellion/status/115...32/photo/1

It appears that the LedgerX article that I linked to yesterday has been amended to clarify that LedgerX is "NOT" approved to launch physical settled bitcoin futures.  I suppose the changed article clarifies whatever misstatement that had been contained in the earlier article.... 

Hopefully, no STW member was deceived into going "all in" BTC based on such misrepresentations and further BTC's price has so far only pumped about $500 since I had posted that.  

By the way, guys here should recognize that surely I take no responsibility either way for the accuracy of any of my posts or recommendations or whatever.. I consider myself as just trying to get bitcoin related information out there in order that guys can decide how much weight if any to give to any articles or any other representations on these here interwebs... decide or don't decide to act and decide or don't decide to do your own due diligence... in other worlds personal responsibility remains important for any investment strategy, whether bitcoin or otherwise. 

Now that I have said all that... .get your asses out there and buy yourselves some bitcoin, you fucks...   maybe once all the STW guys buy a decent stash of BTC and leverage themselves 253% more that "all in," then the BTC price will be able to finally go to zero.

hahahahahahaha      Tongue  good luck out there in the wild, wild west of bitcoinlandia... it's dangerous.  Angel
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