The young man's career advice thread
#1
I had this idea for a career advice thread as a place for questions and ideas from members.  There are a lot of guys who have questions about career advice but the people around irl them will not necessarily have the same advice as guys who have the career / life /travel / women experience as some of the guys here.  The last thing you want is some guidance counselor types telling a young man advice which essentially amounts to go sit in a cubicle and compromise every thought and feeling you have for the next 30 years and end up with nearly nothing...

The thread could be used by guys of any age looking for career direction advice but I assume most will be young guys looking for ideas and who have questions.  Also I hope this prevents hundreds of little threads that just die out, this one can get better and better with what is posted.

I will leave it to those who have questions to start, but drop this commentary:  We are entering a time when everyone is concerned about "apps" and "crypto" and young men are begging to get into leftist companies without thinking about the consequences both personally and regarding what they are a part of.  The future belongs to the man who enters the less sexy professions.  Nothing against coding, but most are involved in bullshit like making stars appear around girls selfies.  If I were a young man going into programming I would make a beeline over to a tractor company and work on programs that control the transmissions on agricultural equipment (for example).
Reply
#2
(06-23-2019, 01:57 PM)Off The Reservation Wrote: I had this idea for a career advice thread as a place for questions and ideas from members.  There are a lot of guys who have questions about career advice but the people around irl them will not necessarily have the same advice as guys who have the career / life /travel / women experience as some of the guys here.  The last thing you want is some guidance counselor types telling a young man advice which essentially amounts to go sit in a cubicle and compromise every thought and feeling you have for the next 30 years and end up with nearly nothing...

The thread could be used by guys of any age looking for career direction advice but I assume most will be young guys looking for ideas and who have questions.  Also I hope this prevents hundreds of little threads that just die out, this one can get better and better with what is posted.

I will leave it to those who have questions to start, but drop this commentary:  We are entering a time when everyone is concerned about "apps" and "crypto" and young men are begging to get into leftist companies without thinking about the consequences both personally and regarding what they are a part of.  The future belongs to the man who enters the less sexy professions.  Nothing against coding, but most are involved in bullshit like making stars appear around girls selfies.  If I were a young man going into programming I would make a beeline over to a tractor company and work on programs that control the transmissions on agricultural equipment (for example).

Good idea for a thread.

With respect to coding, this is mostly good advice.

Coding skills are powerful and can pay very well. Also, you can do the work from anywhere if you play your cards right.

I also believe that the best opportunities for dev autonomy and job stability in tech are in building custom web/cloud-based software solutions for small to medium sized businesses. Ideally you will be building things for blue-collar and male-dominated industries so as to not have to deal with the bullshit of a feminized workplace which erodes your sanity. If you find yourself 4 years in and you're still dealing with H.R. in any capacity, you're probably doing it wrong.

Added benefit to working with specialized businesses (instead of consumers with 'apps') is that they should already be profitable and they will fucking pay you if you're solving real problems for them...

The tech skills (i.e. command line, version control, 'full stack', basic devops) take several years to obtain, but the more things you build the better you get.

tldr; obtain industry knowledge of small/med business need + tech skills to build cloud-based applications/tools
Reply
#3
This is going to be a great thread. My advice for the young bucks is to develop a strong work ethic early on by taking on difficult jobs whether it's digging a ditch or doing marathon coding/programmer sessions in front of a computer. I started working at a lumber mill rolling logs off of a truck and into the mill to turn into lumber, which I then had to stack in piles, so it was chucking 2X4s all day in the summer heat. I worked there from the ages of 15-21 every summer and only made minimum wage, which was $5.00/hour, I was clearing something around $215/week which I mostly spent on beer. Anytime I have a tough day at my current job, I think back to that mill and the crazy owner yelling at me "Scotian quit fuckin' the dog and get to work!" and I realize how good I now have it, at a job that pays about ten times more than that one I had in my teens. 

I like the security of having a good union job with benefits/pension and enjoy working with my hands and not being in an office. I also like to travel and my job in the oil industry allows me to take lots of time off, I usually go south from December until April although I think I may work more and limit travel in the next few years. If anyone wants advice on how to get into the skilled trades and the oil industry, let me know.
Reply
#4
Anytime I talk to a young dude who is directionless in his life, I suggest the military.

Instant career. Benefits. Free college. Travel the world. Make friends for life.

I was in at 19, out by 23 and making six-figures by 25, thanks to my career in the military.

You'll also learn how to be a professional and "play the game".

Someone wrote a really fucking awesome data sheet on the military lifestyle: https://www.swooptheworld.com/forum/show...hp?tid=705
There's no such thing as different but equal. 
-Dante Nero
Reply
#5
I don't care what anyone says. Malcolm Gladwell's 10,000 hours concept is real. How that manifests itself in the real world is when you start in your career you are making an investment in your skills. The more you specialize, the more you increase your value within that niche, the more money you can make (and hopefully move up the ladder).

Sounds simple, right?

Well, not exactly.

The world changes and the career you chose might get knocked out by automation or some other cultural change. Also, YOU CHANGE. What was exciting to you in the early days of the learning curve will likely become boring and repetitive once you reach the point of diminishing returns. That's when people tend to have their mid-life-crisis.

And the problem is it is DAMN HARD to change careers later in life. You tend to have a lot more financial obligations and limited free-time.

So what I'm saying is be very careful how you invest your time when you are young and unencumbered. Try as best you can to pick a career path that you think will maintain your interest through your entire life because you may get stuck with it later.

When you're young, you wish you had money. When you have money later in life, you wish you were following your passion rather than being stuck with golden shackles.
Reply
#6
As someone who worked back breakingly hard AND followed my passions, been broke AND been comfortable, here is my career advice: 

"FUCK YOUR PASSIONS"

Not everyone can earn a living being a musician, lifestyle blogger or race car driver.

Unless you have finances sorted already, passion projects come second to earning REAL money. Real work funds passion projects, never the other way around. If you can combine the two, great! But be honest with yourself and where the money is coming from.

So with that out of the way, here's my real tip: Find out what tasks you enjoy doing and maximize the percentage of work time you do those tasks for (maximum) money. Could be anything from typing (coding) to working with power tools (trades), reading legal docs (office) or talking with people (sales). The more transferable the task, the more flexibility you will have when times and opportunities change. Even if you don't become filthy rich, as long as you can tolerate and streamline these tasks, you'll be happy and have enough time to work on risky passion projects on the side. Chances are those projects will involve some aspect of the tasks you have become good at and that's why they'll succeed.

This brings us to my career theory of: TASK STACKS, aka skill stacking. This means combining the tasks you are good at into one career, job or project. If you can accomplish a stack and be rewarded with good money then you'll be happy doing the work in a way that won't feel like work.
Reply
#7
(06-28-2019, 01:56 AM)JackinX Wrote: Not everyone can earn a living being a musician
So you wanna be a musician? Sign on, you crazy diamond!!
They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety- Benjamin Franklin, as if you didn't know...
Reply
#8
Oh fuk... Music and pussy are my passions in life.
Reply
#9
Medical school still seems like a good path if you can make it. Maybe with a focus on genetics, since a lot of drugs in the future may be targeted to specific genes.
Reply
#10
(06-29-2019, 11:28 AM)Hypno Wrote: Medical school still seems like a good path if you can make it.  Maybe with a focus on genetics, since a lot of drugs in the future may be targeted to specific genes.

I'm going to just go ahead and repost our conversation from a different thread where you said pretty much the same thing.

(06-24-2019, 05:00 PM)Suits Wrote:
(06-23-2019, 12:39 PM)Hypno Wrote: 3. Majors - becoming an MD is probably the best course financially. Engineering and Business. probably after that. Plan for the long haul - expect to get a professional degree or PHD.

MD is actually a bad idea financially. The amount of time and school and the debt you pick-up turns you into a high-earning wage-slave. It may pay off in the end as your progress through your 40's, but that's a long time to wait.

You can't study really for a career in business (aside from finance), business degrees don't prepare you to actually DO business.
The area of true potential is entrepreneurship, but to succeed in this area, you generally need to know about something well enough to see to possibilities and opportunities that others don't see or don't act on. If you don't have the ability create something genuinely valuable, your business pursuits are largely going to involve being your own boss, but not an entrepreneur.

Watch Shark Tank. Many of the most successful products that appear on the show are something someone created because they were doing something on a routine basis and had an idea. A better cutting board because a normal guy cooked all the time and ideas developed. A device to solve the problem of tables in restaurants wobbling because the floor isn't even -- created by a guy who, you guessed it, had a lot of restaurant experience. A better child carrier created by -- a parent with kids. A device for connecting large electrical cables -- invented by a guy with 30 years of hands-on experience as a electrical technician.

If your interest is in creating something with exponential growth potential (and the accompanying income potential), it's actually best to major in an area where you'll learn specific knowledge and skills, not a theoretical field. However, it needs to be something that you are genuinely interested and can really pour yourself into.

The teacher that creates a successful software platform for better learning that gets implemented at 200 schools is going to end up richer than a doctor. The accountant who automates a routine and troublesome task with a patented process is going to end up more comfortable than a dentist. The civil engineer who figures out how to build equally safe bridges with 20% materials with a method that people can't use without paying him is going to outdo the confident finance guy who went to the top 10 school and got straight A's.

Just don't study something like political science, geography or history, unless you're going into something skills-based like teaching or high end statistical modelling (where there is a ton of room for profitable innovation) There's going to be very little a non-skills oriented, theoretically focused major is going to do to speed up your progress into being enough of an expert in a specific field with a need for better products and services that save companies and people time and money or fulfill a desire that people are willing to drop serious cash on.
Reply
#11
The problem is you can’t just become an entrepreneur and get a guaranteed result. It’s not a career per we. And for every teacher that creates something that is used by 200 schools there are 2000 teachers who don’t.

Also, they are not mutually exclusive; an MD with a degree in genetics might invent something like a new drug!
Reply
#12
(06-29-2019, 04:54 PM)Hypno Wrote: The problem is you can’t just become an entrepreneur and get a guaranteed result.  It’s not a career per we.  And for every teacher that creates something that is used by 200 schools there are 2000 teachers who don’t.

Also, they are not mutually exclusive; an MD with a degree in genetics might invent something like a new drug!

Becoming an MD is also not a guaranteed result. Plenty of people flunk out of med-school. 


If you're smart enough to get into and finish med-school is arguably smart enough to succeed in any field. If you're good enough at memorizing information to finish med-school, but not creative enough to actually invent a new medical device, you're guaranteed result is having to be a high end wage slave until you pay off the debt and that's assuming that you haven't adopted a lifestyle you can barely afford by that point (which many due).

Furthermore, most of the things medically trained people invent require a ton of work to develop and several patent to properly protect, all of which is going to probably cost millions to do (and fast enough that someone else who has the funding doesn't beat you to it). So it the end, your investors or employer end up owning the lion's share of the fruit of your hard work.

Relevant: http://wallstreetplayboys.com/is-startin...-get-rich/

Not a bad direction to go if you want predictable wealth, but if you're like most people, you'll probably squander most of your earnings and your career path will be a classic case of golden handcuffs.

Let me put it this way. When I visited a walk-in clinic recently in North America, the doctor who saw me (who had to be in his 40's, if not 50's) admitted to me that he was working overtime at the clinic on top of a full-time job, just to make ends meet.

For a guy who is passionate about being a doctor, it's not a bad career direction. But I wouldn't recommend it "just for the money."
Reply
#13
Don't go to college unless your major is in STEM if you are taking student loans.

Disregard the advice of old unsuccessful people. Find a mentor.
Reply
#14
-Health care (don't need to become an MD. Male nurses can make 6 figures and work abroad).

-IT

-Finance

-Possibly sales, if you have the personality and cajones for it

-Military

Knowing what I know now, I'd never advise anyone to become a teacher. Although I had plenty of fun and smashed more pussy than most guys will in a lifetime, if I could do it all over again I'd have gotten my education and career in order in my early 20s and be pulling in six figures by 25, working remotely by 30-35.
Reply
#15
Learn a trade. Ideally several.
Welding, Plumbing, Electrical, Trucking, Railroading, Utility Installation, Heavy Equipment Operations, Clean Diesel Technology etc.

All of the above are in-demand skills that are valuable all over the world and pay very well. The Oil & Gas industry is discussed a lot in these forums, buts that’s just scratching the surface of blue collar trades that can be financially and personally rewarding.

Bust your ass, be the youngest and most inexperienced guy in the room (for the first few years), take notes, reflect, ask a lot of questions and stick with it through hell and high water. Show up, be reliable and do the work. You will advance quickly and feel immensely satisified.

If you can got on with a privately owned company with an older owner operator, and you prove to be reliable and can perform, he/she will compensate you very well. This has been my experience.

You can work well before sun up to well after sun down doing physical labor while youre young, but if you keep at it eventually your body will shut down and you will be plagued with ill health. Work the opportunity as hard as you can while youre young, acquire the knowledge/wisdom, then when you’re a bit older, step back and find a young motivated kid like yourself to step in and break his back for you. The cycle repeats itself.

Put your steel toe boots on and get to work.
Reply
#16
Learn a trade. Ideally several.
Welding, Plumbing, Electrical, Trucking, Railroading, Utility Installation, Heavy Equipment Operations, Clean Diesel Technology etc.

All of the above are in-demand skills that are valuable all over the world and pay very well. The Oil & Gas industry is discussed a lot in these forums, buts that’s just scratching the surface of blue collar trades that can be financially and personally rewarding.

Bust your ass, be the youngest and most inexperienced guy in the room (for the first few years), take notes, reflect, ask a lot of questions and stick with it through hell and high water. Show up, be reliable and do the work. You will advance quickly and feel immensely satisified.

If you can got on with a privately owned company with an older owner operator, and you prove to be reliable and can perform, he/she will compensate you very well. This has been my experience.

You can work well before sun up to well after sun down doing physical labor while youre young, but if you keep at it eventually your body will shut down and you will be plagued with ill health. Work the opportunity as hard as you can while youre young, acquire the knowledge/wisdom, then when you’re a bit older, step back and find a young motivated kid like yourself to step in and break his back for you. The cycle repeats itself.

Put your steel toe boots on and get to work.
Reply
#17
Good thread that deserves a bump with good advice from Crazy Horse above. You cant go wrong with a skilled trade or craftsmanship. Personally I fell into carpentry as soon as I got out of high school. I went to work for a guy and it was just me and him. In a couple years I learned all the 'tricks of the trade' he spent his entire career figuring out... and I got paid for my education.
For the last ten years I've build one house or cottage per year and sold it. A nice perk is that I change "jobs" every few days, starting with concrete and ending with mouldings and finishing work. Anyone who has worked a repetitive blue collar job will understand the novelty of doing something different every few days. I'm also entirely my own boss. I show up when I want, leave when I want, and take whatever time off that I want. I make anywhere from fifty to eighty grand a year doing this, which is enough for a single guy living in semi rural Canada. The negatives are the large upfront investment of money and time before I get paid back... Im sure that is why more tradesmen don't go this route. I always have 100-120 grand tied up in a project plus several months to a year of sweat before my ship comes in. I've considered writing a data sheet on how to pull this off but its so dependant on you having the skills that its not going to have a wide appeal.
I'll finish with great business advice that I haven't taken but is always in the back of my mind. "The key to good business is being a good middle man." So true. In my arena the middle man is the real estate agent. They got it easy compared to what I have to do. Too bad I don't like people. Ha.
Reply
#18
Learn to code. Don't go to college. There is plenty of free education online. Contribute to open source projects to build experience. Otherwise learn a trade if this isn't practical.
Reply
#19
I hear "learn to code" so often that I have to call it out. Does that really fulfill you guys? Kudos if it does but I wonder if you know how good it feels to bust your ass all day in the sun, or fuck that, the wind in the rain. At the end of the day you stand back and see what you've accomplished and if you've done your job right it'll be standing long after you're dead. There's entire threads here and on another forum which shall remain nameless dedicated to boosting your testosterone, or god forbid, taking shots of it artificially. Go get your hands dirty instead.
Reply
#20
(12-13-2019, 08:10 AM)Smash Wrote: I hear "learn to code" so often that I have to call it out. Does that really fulfill you guys? Kudos if it does but I wonder if you know how good it feels to bust your ass all day in the sun, or fuck that, the wind in the rain. At the end of the day you stand back and see what you've accomplished and if you've done your job right it'll be standing long after you're dead. There's entire threads here and on another forum which shall remain nameless dedicated to boosting your testosterone, or god forbid, taking shots of it artificially. Go get your hands dirty instead.

This. You took the words out of my mouth. Code monkeys in India are a dime a dozen. Real world skills are in decline.

Now, if you can code AND have specific technical knowledge- you will do very well indeed.
They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety- Benjamin Franklin, as if you didn't know...
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)