Meetups: Are they worth it? Lessons learned.
#41
TLDR: I met up with a repped RVF member who turned out to be the biggest loser I’ve ever met, he looks like an AIDS patient with a heroin addiction and was an arrogant prick.

https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-28071...#pid533893
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#42
^ I have HIV not AIDS
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#43
I met a lot of guys in Ukraine, on and off the forum, that were not neccassirly bad, but weird people, and I used to meet them for a laugh. Eventually meeting people that you don't really like bites you on the ass someday though

I have to say that Californians set off alarm bells with me, some of the whackest guys I have met are from there, maybe other people know what I'm talking about.
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#44
(06-06-2019, 01:03 PM)deb_auchery Wrote: I met a lot of guys in Ukraine, on and off the forum, that were not neccassirly bad, but weird people, and I used to meet them for a laugh. Eventually meeting people that you don't really like bites you on the ass someday though

I have to say that Californians set off alarm bells with me, some of the whackest guys I have met are from there, maybe other people know what I'm talking about.

I cannot imagine doing meetups in ukraine. One, Ukraine seems pretty sketchy, especially the gamers there (have not been there myself). Two, it seems to be holy grail of Eastern European pickup (other than Russia). Is this because of the poverty there, yes, I think, to a large degree. Are all these guys polyglots (both russian and ukranian are difficult to pick up) with a good working knowledge of ukrainian/ russian, or is there something else at play? Like p4p, sponsorship, or poverty game. I don't know. But I have my suspicions.

Put it another way, if you have the means to travel, you can pick any country in the world, but why would you pick ukraine? Ukraine is also notorious for marriage agencies, scams, and middle-aged men. This is again outside what I know, but there is a lot of conflict between people that would post on the Ukraine thread, and I get the distinct impression that some people take the easy route and are in implied sponsorship positions, or worse yet, sticking to a version of Ukraine (kiev) that other people are pushing, for whatever reason.
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#45
(06-06-2019, 03:40 PM)Heuristics Wrote:
(06-06-2019, 01:03 PM)deb_auchery Wrote: I met a lot of guys in Ukraine, on and off the forum, that were not neccassirly bad, but weird people, and I used to meet them for a laugh. Eventually meeting people that you don't really like bites you on the ass someday though

I have to say that Californians set off alarm bells with me, some of the whackest guys I have met are from there, maybe other people know what I'm talking about.

I cannot imagine doing meetups in ukraine. One, Ukraine seems pretty sketchy, especially the gamers there (have not been there myself). Two, it seems to be holy grail of Eastern European pickup (other than Russia). Is this because of the poverty there, yes, I think, to a large degree. Are all these guys polyglots (both russian and ukranian are difficult to pick up) with a good working knowledge of ukrainian/ russian, or is there something else at play? Like p4p, sponsorship, or poverty game. I don't know. But I have my suspicions.

Put it another way, if you have the means to travel, you can pick any country in the world, but why would you pick ukraine? Ukraine is also notorious for marriage agencies, scams, and middle-aged men. This is again outside what I know, but there is a lot of conflict between people that would post on the Ukraine thread, and I get the distinct impression that some people take the easy route and are in implied sponsorship positions, or worse yet, sticking to a version of Ukraine (kiev) that other people are pushing, for whatever reason.

Well I have met some good guys through the RVF forum, ones that I am still friends with today. The thing is that it's easier to become friends with guys that have a similar lifestyle to yourself - travellling + meeting women, location independent lifestyle etc. If I start talking to guys back home about the stuff I talk about to my expat friends about in Ukraine they looks at me like i'm some deviant monster.

Most of the expats I know have a limite knowledge of Russian, I knew a couple of guys who learned Ukrainian to a decent standard

Quote:Put it another way, if you have the means to travel, you can pick any country in the world, but why would you pick ukraine?

This is what the local women think, once you tell them you are location independent and chose Ukraine they think you are mad, hence I always say I have business connections in the country.

The sex tourism thing as not as big as you think in Ukraine, I mean not in terms of Wessterners anyway. Many of them are looking for wives which I have nothing against, many of them are highly deluded with regard to their expectations of course, but live and let live. There's plenty of cheap sex available in other places in central and eastern europe, no need to go all the way to Ukraine for it.

Serbia also have some very dodgy expats, I have heard some mind blowing stories about people I knew there. Also Serbian women respond in exactly the same way as Ukrainians when you tell them you chose to be in their country, the reaction is even stronger in fact.
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#46
Not gonna disagree with you that you can meet solid people in these out of the way places. They live interesting lives. I can't really talk to anyone IRL about the expat lifestyle, no one understands unless they've lived the lifestyle themselves.

I agree, seems like very few people have a working proficiency in any of the eastern languages. If they do they are really intellegent generally.

As far as the local women you're right. You have to say you're there not by choice but for business.

Ukraine is huge, so the pua types are only a small percentage of people relative to the overall population. But only a few bad ones can poision the well for others that have longer term ambitions.

Expats in Serbia... care to share? I think the reaction in serbia is pretty spot on. Most girls are like really confused and thnik you have ulterior motives.
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#47
^So what’s your back story Heuristics when you day game girls in Serbia, apparently you’re a fat dork with admittedly poor social skills so do these girls call you out on it? Also, why the fuck did you even decide on Serbia? Why didn’t you try go to a place where the local girls would be more forgiving with your awkwardness?
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#48
Scotian, I don't think I have bad personal social skills but of course my opinion of myself may be off the mark. What I used to have is massive anxiety around girls, couldn't carry a conversation, flirt with them or show interest. Would be literally shaking talking to girls it was that bad.

I went back to Serbia a second time to learn game, honest answer. Prior to being in Serbia I had done 25 sets tops in the span of multiple years. Put another way, I was terrified of gaming in the US, some of which was based on the stuff I was reading on RVF about how bad women were and how the feminism movement was killing game in the US, I think this was massively over-exagerrated. So, instead of staying in the US and powering through my insecurities I decided to go back to serbia, to game in a hard place, but to have fun also.

Most of the game I did was daygame. I don't know the majority of my sets. maybe 150 maybe more. I'd never talked to girls so much in my life. I had a lot of apprehension. Nothing bad happened, that's what I learned. I had girls tell me I was smart, well-travelled, funny, very honest, and direct. I'd never gotten such compliments in the US. I missed getting a bang on an instadate with a hot serbian/bosnian part time model i met on the banks of the Danube, and also I missed going home with a girl who i gamed via social circle. A lot of what happened to me was trial and error and just trying to get over all these hang-ups I had. I would do it again Scotian because I really took myself out of my comfort zone, and underwent a at times very painful journey of personal growth. very painful.

Am I fat? No. A certain member in question called me fat, and then everyone has stuck to it. But then again I don't care even if I were.

How did I decide on Serbia? I looked at moving to eastern europe and in general felt I would be uncomfortable being in Ukraine or Russia. I had heard good things from an expat friend who spent a year in serbia, said it was a bit off the beaten path and a fun place to be in general. I had some interest in Yugoslav history, so i decided I'd go to one of the former yugoslav countries. It just ended up being belgrade by chance. I found an opportunity there, Croatian opportunity and Montenegrian one didn't work out, so I thought maybe it would be a cool place to check out for 3 months... Ended up staying six, I liked it so much. From there, it was an easy choice to go back, and that's where I formally started my game journey.

I have all the time in the world to travel, so I just decided my first big jaunt abroad would just be somewhere off the beaten path. keeping in mind people told me it would be hard to game there, I learned a lot from rejection.

that's the short story.
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#49
I met some cool people in Kiev when I was there 4 years ago. I was in Romania, met 20N and he convinced me to change me plans and go to Kiev. Cool place. When I was an awkward newbie I travelled to Asia, banged a bunch of girls and built up my confidence. If you're struggling to get laid then going to difficult places like EE probably isn't smart. You need to go somewhere easy like Bangkok and build up confidence. Get a few lays under your belt, then try your luck in a place like EE.

The turnkey solution to getting laid if you're a virgin is to take a trip to the Philippines or Thailand.
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#50
I disagree with this. SEA is on easy mode and will teach nothing. Travelling is just a change of scenery. Game should be learned in one's home country.
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#51
^I agree with that, guys should work on whatever deficiencies they have at home before going abroad, as the saying goes “wherever you go, there you are.”
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#52
You guys are probably right about learning game in your own country. From my own experience, I approached a FUCKLOAD of girls in NYC when I first started out (I was a socially awkward guy living with my parents in another state), and almost never got laid. I started having a lot of sex when I went to SEA and it really build up my confidence. Maybe I'd do things differently if I could go back in time, but that's what worked for me.
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#53
I'm not sure I agree that working on yourself at home is the way to go. "Where you go, there you are" is true, but some personalities are more compatible with different cultures. Often easier to move to a different culture than change yourself: the motto of Happier Abroad.

My own personality fits in much better in Europe, especially Eastern Europe, than the USA for examine. I seldom smile, and when I do, there's an element of craziness present. In the USA, I'm just weird. In Europe, especially EE, I'm a man of mystery. I was able to get women in the USA when younger, but relationships were never satisfying because of personality clashes. Until I started going for immigrants (from Germany and Eastern Europe) 10 to 25 years older, who accepted my natural gloomy and slightly crazy personality as normal. Of course, with that age gap, nothing lasts long. Fine, since I'm a natural loner.

If I was willing to date age appropriate at this point (women 45-55), I'd be inundated wth candidates in Kyiv. It's only because I'm once again defying convention and going for women 30 to 40 years younger that I have to pay. Maybe I don't have to pay and am only paying to be more of a troublemaker. Expense means nothing to me, especially here in Kyiv where everything is cheap from my perspective.

Deliberately created something of a scandal at my social activity last night, though more odd than offensive behavior, so still accepted in the group. Feel better that everyone understands that I'm some kind of social outcaste. When some woman asked if I was okay, I replied (in Russian, which I'm getting good at): "Please, I'm a tourist [which she hears as 'sex tourist', as I well knew]. You need to speak loudly, clearly and slowly, simple sentences, like talking to a half-wit." Speaking loudly myself, frowning the whole time. She giggled nervously and excused herself. Bunch of young women came and sat near me afterwards. I ignored them, which increased the attraction. At some point, I'm going to casually slip into conversation with one of the men that I pay an escort girl 30 years younger than me for sex, to explain why I don't bother with the women at the social group. Hopefully he will share the information and really create a scandal...
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#54
Actually, this is the Happier Abroad quote I was thinking of, which is by someone not affiliated with that site:

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
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#55
(06-07-2019, 03:10 AM)churros Wrote: I disagree with this. SEA is on easy mode and will teach nothing. Travelling is just a change of scenery. Game should be learned in one's home country.

I would be on board with this 10-20 years ago, but nowadays in the west, specifically the US, and more specifically in the dense urban areas like the north east, the heart of the leftist strong hold, we have peak clown world. Unless you thrive in these fucked up modern environments, leaving as soon as possible is ideal.
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#56
How about driving an hour outside of the cities to a small city or town where people aren’t so influenced by the SJW retardation? I’m not against international travel and dating, it would be pretty hypocritical for me to be but I think that there’s some steps a guy can take to improve his success with women before hopping on a plane to fly across the world to meet women. It’s generally agreed that western women are pretty easy to bed, if a guy can’t get laid in the west then there’s likely some sort of deficiency going on.
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#57
(06-07-2019, 02:17 PM)Scotian Wrote: How about driving an hour outside of the cities to a small city or town where people aren’t so influenced by the SJW retardation? I’m not against international travel and dating, it would be pretty hypocritical for me to be but I think that there’s some steps a guy can take to improve his success with women before hopping on a plane to fly across the world to meet women. It’s generally agreed that western women are pretty easy to bed, if a guy can’t get laid in the west then there’s likely some sort of deficiency going on.

I did that, moved from Boston to a city of 100k an hour away when I was in my late twenties because I couldn't afford the outrageous rent anymore. I thought it would be cool, figured I'd get a less superficial experience.

I was surrounded by old people, single moms, heroin addicts, hood rats and criminals, fat fucks, people who still listen to ICP, etc.

The worst part was how empty the streets were, women wouldn't walk outside much even in the downtown area because they'd be pestered by bums at best or mugged and raped at worst.

I'm fairly certain this is the situation in most blue state sanctuary cities. Some places may be better then others, but it's no longer a wholesome environment.

When I decided to leave that wasteland I considered some options within the US, but ultimately decided to go abroad because I had the ability to do it then and didn't want to push it off any longer. And I'm glad I did. 

I didn't leave solely because of the women and terrible dating/relationship prospects, I left because I knew it wasn't where I wanted to spend the rest of my life. I want to settle down some day and when I do I want to own land and guns, and I want to be far away from leftist controlled cities and states.

If guys want to stay in the west that's fine too, I'm not saying the whole place is fucked. I can only speak for where I came from and what I've experienced. I'll probably end up back in the States next year to do a tour of all the places I've wanted to see and consider living in. But I have the ability to see and experience all of my options abroad before I do that, so that's what I'm going to do.
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#58
Personally I've met a bit of both the types you jive with from the start and others who are good dudes but not much clicks.

Have yet to actually meet a bad egg.
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#59
(06-07-2019, 03:18 PM)Hey Aero Wrote:
(06-07-2019, 02:17 PM)Scotian Wrote: How about driving an hour outside of the cities to a small city or town where people aren’t so influenced by the SJW retardation? I’m not against international travel and dating, it would be pretty hypocritical for me to be but I think that there’s some steps a guy can take to improve his success with women before hopping on a plane to fly across the world to meet women. It’s generally agreed that western women are pretty easy to bed, if a guy can’t get laid in the west then there’s likely some sort of deficiency going on.

I did that, moved from Boston to a city of 100k an hour away when I was in my late twenties because I couldn't afford the outrageous rent anymore. I thought it would be cool, figured I'd get a less superficial experience.

I was surrounded by old people, single moms, heroin addicts, hood rats and criminals, fat fucks, people who still listen to ICP, etc.

The worst part was how empty the streets were, women wouldn't walk outside much even in the downtown area because they'd be pestered by bums at best or mugged and raped at worst.

I'm fairly certain this is the situation in most blue state sanctuary cities. Some places may be better then others, but it's no longer a wholesome environment.

When I decided to leave that wasteland I considered some options within the US, but ultimately decided to go abroad because I had the ability to do it then and didn't want to push it off any longer. And I'm glad I did. 

I didn't leave solely because of the women and terrible dating/relationship prospects, I left because I knew it wasn't where I wanted to spend the rest of my life. I want to settle down some day and when I do I want to own land and guns, and I want to be far away from leftist controlled cities and states.

If guys want to stay in the west that's fine too, I'm not saying the whole place is fucked. I can only speak for where I came from and what I've experienced. I'll probably end up back in the States next year to do a tour of all the places I've wanted to see and consider living in. But I have the ability to see and experience all of my options abroad before I do that, so that's what I'm going to do.
Your description of the locals reminded me of the guy in this hilarious video lol: 
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IuklQw4vu3A
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#60
(06-07-2019, 08:21 AM)shemp Wrote: Actually, this is the Happier Abroad quote I was thinking of, which is by someone not affiliated with that site:

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World

This, especially in 2019 when it's easier than ever to connect to people globally.

I've never been of the sentiment that you shouldn't go abroad if you struggle at home. While I agree that you can't escape you no matter where you go, I also believe different cultures may fit people's personalities better than their home land. In America for example, there seems to be more positive points for being an extrovert and vice versa for introverts than there is in Asia. I'm more of an introvert and while being an extrovert isn't a negative there, I don't think the point difference varies nearly as much.

So for more laid back guys that are adaptable to different environments, I honestly believe Asia is better for their development than trying and failing at home. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. If you try different techniques with women and don't vibe with them in one place, why stay there if you don't have to?

Part of it is there's definitely a stigma for guys that leave their countries to get laid. I get it to an extent, but people act like there's no good women in SEA or any other parts of the world. People also act like women can't be gateways to see the world. I've discovered a lot more in a couple of countries I've gone to because of women I dated there than I would have on my own. You will absolutely not get the full experience of another culture unless you get into a minimum STR with a local girl.

I can't really judge Latin America, Eastern Europe or Africa, but I have had more positive experience with northern Asian and SEA girls, even Caribbean girls, than I have with western girls as a guy that is from the west. I've gotten laid in both places, but my ROI has definitely been the highest in Asia. So, at the end of the day, it really depends on what you want out of life, what your life situation is, and what comforts you care about. Because while it may be easier to get laid in some places, actually living there is considered a big challenge versus living in your home land for some people.

(06-07-2019, 02:17 PM)Scotian Wrote: How about driving an hour outside of the cities to a small city or town where people aren’t so influenced by the SJW retardation? I’m not against international travel and dating, it would be pretty hypocritical for me to be but I think that there’s some steps a guy can take to improve his success with women before hopping on a plane to fly across the world to meet women. It’s generally agreed that western women are pretty easy to bed, if a guy can’t get laid in the west then there’s likely some sort of deficiency going on.

See, I'm American, and I tell forum guys all the time that this is greatly exaggerated. I think people base this off of big liberal cities and the women's behavior abroad, but it's not the most accurate statement when we get down to rural America. I've traveled around half of the US. While there's a few places where I can absolutely see this statement hold up, I think it's way too much of a blanket statement given how big America is to apply it to the whole country. I live in an area where almost every manosphere guy universally agrees is a bad place for game and women in the US. They exist, especially once you start getting outside big cities and college towns. Hell, even some cities and college towns require a lot of long term social circle game that is hard to break into if you're not from there.

I actually think New Orleans is the best place I've been to in America for the purposes of getting laid, but I would not want to live there long term and I think it's a horrible place for finding a LTR. Another place people talk highly of is NYC. There are more opportunities there than most places, but you really have to commit to it as a base. Most people will have a hard time finding money to travel to other places at least first starting out in NYC. I'm not sure I'd wanna trade my savings and ability to see other places for one city. Also, NYC probably has some of the biggest competition in the world, so really depends on what you're willing to deal with.

I'm very skeptical to call the US an easy place for sex given what I've seen of the country. In the right pockets and the right night, maybe. But in my opinion, you are looking for a needle in a haystack, given the size of the country. For reference, I can take a flight to Europe or to Central America in the same time it takes to get to the opposite side of the country. Californians can take flights to Asia that are not much longer than to eastern parts of the US. Is it that unreasonable to look abroad with that being the case?

So, the statement of America being easy is a complicated one. There might be pockets of opportunities here and there, but I tend to believe Asia is easier than the US. I don't know how anyone can think the west is the easiest place in the world to get laid when western guys travel to several different regions of the world and meet women there.
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