The Stock Market, Investments, and Investing Thread
#81
(02-06-2020, 12:08 PM)ChicagoFire Wrote: I put some more money into bitcoin. I don't think this has been discussed in this thread but a tiny part of your investments should be having fun every now and then. The world could get hit by a comet and we're all dead.

I don't know about whether there is any necessity for "fun" in an investment portfolio, but there may be some ability to structure smaller amounts of an overall investment approach that involves some aspect of unknown, and learning along the way, which could be considered a kind of "fun" because truly guys are going to be more likely to pay attention to various assets by putting some value into some assets that interest them but they believe them to be either too risky or too unknown.

We also know that historical performance does not guarantee future results, yet bitcoin is turning out to be a pretty solid investment in a variety of timelines, just to add some portion to your portfolio... Since around the time that I got in, in 2013, I have been recommending 1% to 10%, since I personally had been aiming for 10% when I first got in, but there are even some assessments of bitcoin from traditional investor groups that show that bitcoin allocations of .5% to 3% between 2012 and 2019 would have brought a lot of upside potential to the returns of any regularly allocated investment portfolio, based on historical data. A couple of days ago, I provided a link to that tweet/article/graph in one of my bitcoin posts.


(02-06-2020, 12:08 PM)ChicagoFire Wrote: As for my all time performing investments:
Stocks have been hit or miss. I have pulled off a return that hit 2x if my memory is correct. Historically this area returns 10%.
Fundrise is too early to tell but I've been hitting 8% all time.
Crypto is too early to tell but could be my all time leader. Fingers crossed but I'm still taking action everyday.

My historical returns in historical investments have been about 5.5% over more than 35 years.

Of course, my bitcoin (fuck cryptos, by the way.. only bitcoin matters) has way outperformed my traditional investments to kind of skew my total investment portfolio from 2017 to present... It took about 2 years for my BTC to come into about a break even point in the beginning of 2016 - (which was in the $400 to $500 arena), and then through 2016 another year of gradually rising that caused my portfolio to be increasingly above the break even point before they really started to go into a kind of exponential territory starting in about 2017, when the BTC price broke above $1k for the first time in nearly 3 years... which seemed to cause more and more attention to the matter and a kind of snowballing upwards over the next year and then a decently large correction of about 85% down from $19,666 to $3,124 that never caused my investment to dip below 4x for the total then investment period of 5 years (but now over 6 years).

I am just saying all of this in order to suggest consideration of a long term strategy in regards to bitcoin rather than getting too caught up on whether the portfolio would be profitable in the short term.. so in that regard, if you have at least a 4 year investment time, then you will likely be o..k. and even a 10 year or longer investment time line might even be MOAR better.. if that is within your possible investment wheelhouse.

(02-06-2020, 12:08 PM)ChicagoFire Wrote: "Gurus"
Wall street playboys is okay in moderation. In real life you will see people working jobs that are doing fine. My buddy works as a paramedic and has been hitting me up to help him with his side business. He makes 100K+, owned a boat at one point, and has no debt.

Since I come from working class, I personally have no problems working to get started and trying to make the best of that.. a kind of working and learning can be good, and surely even better if you can make decent money while working and even build credit along the way in order to be able take advantage of credit/debt, if you feel it is to your advantage.

In my thinking credit and debt are much better used when thinking about investing rather than consumption.. nothing wrong with consumption, don't really want to be using credit/debt for those purposes unless merely just building credit/debt history and not incurring penalties, fees, interest... by managing those systems to your advantage.

(02-06-2020, 12:08 PM)ChicagoFire Wrote: Financial Samurai is garbage. His exit plan book sucks, his advice on prosper sucks (5%ish returns on my end?), his advice on betterment sucks (I lost money), his advice on driving for lyft is stupid.

30Days to X is cool. Unsexy site but advice is practical. Robert needs more love here.

Not familiar with any of those, so will take your word for it.


(02-06-2020, 12:08 PM)ChicagoFire Wrote: Mr Money Moustache: okay FIRE advice. You can only talk about living below your means before you beat a dead horse. I can't help but wonder if that's why his wife divorced him since nobody could/would want to live like how MMM proposes for decades. Somebody on the Roosh forum raised a valid point about this site possibly being linked to the Illuminati.

It seems that no matter which sites or "gurus" that you read, you can get helpful information, and surely living within your means remains a very powerful concept when put to practice. You only use your debt/credit as tools and you stock away decent amounts of your income and let it ride. With the passage of time, you should be finding that living within your means becomes easier and easier and easier, because your income should be going up with the passage of time.. at least seems to me that the earliest days are the most difficult to establish a decently sized investment portfolio, and with the passage of time, you might not be needing to extract as much from your regular life in order to add to your investment portfolio.. so your standard of living should be going up.

For example, for a bit more than 20 years while I was building my investment portfolio, I never bought new cars (there is one exception, I did buy a new motorcycle that was about 3 years old at the time that I bought it, so it was extremely discounted and sold as new and with the warranty, etc), I would buy my cars between 3-5 years old and drive them for a few years. I never really felt deprived, and I never felt as if I did not have nice and reliable vehicles. It is a great way to have more money for investing because you do not have that ongoing car bill and even a need for full coverage insurance on the car; however, in the past 10 years, my last couple of cars have been new luxury cars, and sure, I like the treat of a new car, but I keep the cars for a long time too, once I buy them..

The car example is just one way that guys can save money on the front end, but still NOT feel as if they are engaging in over sacrificing.

I don't feel bad to treat myself in current times because I already did a lot of sacrificing on the front end of a bit more than 20 years to build my investment portfolio and to have a decently large sum of money that I have available to feel that I can treat myself from time to time, and my point is that my living within my means standard of living has gone up in the last 10 years, but I surely still would not prescribe to buying a new car every few years because it seems to be a BIG waste of money.. So, my portfolio has kind of evolved out of an accumulation stage and more into a maintenance stage, but I still don't feel that I can act wildly with my situation.. or maybe wildly from time to time, but the portfolio is still building on its own to some extent even though it has migrated further towards maintenance rather than its early days were more strictly in the accumulation phase.

So buying new cars every few years does not seem to be really necessary... but if my portfolio has gone from an accumulation and into a maintenance stage, then there is a lot less pressure to continue to accumulate and more value can be spent and no need to inject new value into the fund, and surely if the portfolio starts to gravitate towards a kind of liquidation phase, then even more value can be extracted from the fund, and there can even be goals that the fund continues to maintain its value and you are merely living off of the income that is generated by the investment fund...

Being able to have the fund to be self-sustaining and then being able to have the fund distribute value to the guy should be a goal that is in sight (in the beginning guys might not see how long it is going to take, because it takes a long time to build wealth, especially if having to build on your own).. which is a kind of passive income that allows guys to continue to get distributions from his investment funds without putting more value into it.. and if a guys expenses are NOT too high, then it is a lot easier to accomplish living totally off of the distributions from the portfolio that the guy has built over the years.. the sooner that guys reach such status of maintenance and even receiving distributions, the more the guy should appreciate his past sacrifices in order to get to such status....and these points are going to be different for each guy.. including the balancing and the figuring out of how much value is necessary to take distributions from the fund and to be able to attempt to live off the distributions from the fund.. either living in full off of such distributions or partially (in a kind of supplementing of income way).
Reply
#82
Quote:I don't know about whether there is any necessity for "fun" in an investment portfolio, but there may be some ability to structure smaller amounts of an overall investment approach that involves some aspect of unknown, and learning along the way, which could be considered a kind of "fun" because truly guys are going to be more likely to pay attention to various assets by putting some value into some assets that interest them but they believe them to be either too risky or too unknown.

You kind of touched on the fun aspect at the end of your post by treating yourself to a new car. To each their own. I'm more of a travel guy.
As for learning I'm simple, I don't like tracking down the latest stock pointer or the new secret Gold hoarding site. I'll rotate investing in different asset classes about every month or two. 

As for bitcoin I still think you should have exposure to it. Could it hit 100K or 0 per coin? Beats me, don't mortgage the house with that particular asset. I agree with having a long term strategy with bitcoin. People like to day trade but I think it's a waste of time. Always remember to file your taxes properly, that's how the feds nab you. 

Quote:In my thinking credit and debt are much better used when thinking about investing rather than consumption.. nothing wrong with consumption, don't really want to be using credit/debt for those purposes unless merely just building credit/debt history and not incurring penalties, fees, interest... by managing those systems to your advantage.

Agreed. I picked this up from Samseau that if you owe money it's not the end of the world since inflation will eat the debt away. You're paying your debts off with devalued money. I like to apply for new 0% credit cards and keep repeating the cycle. This is just one way of gaming the system and others include buying in bulk and gaming your business credit card (I seriously need to get my ass on that project I've been thinking about!)

Quote:It seems that no matter which sites or "gurus" that you read, you can get helpful information, and surely living within your means remains a very powerful concept when put to practice. 

With FIRE themes like invest 10% of your check to a sunny day fund repeats itself. I haven't read everything under the sun but if I have to see another "learn to cook don't eat out" OR "ride the bus instead of own a car" blog post I'm leaving that site fast. Some of the smarter marketers like Wall Street Playboys have to sensationalize their posts otherwise people will go read another blog. 

One last parting shot, Millionaire Fastlane is a great mentality book. My problem is not executing, partly because I have my hands full nowadays. If you're a normie that thinks government is going to pay your 401K you're on the slow lane and by the time the riots start I'll be out of America.
Reply
#83
(02-06-2020, 09:04 PM)ChicagoFire Wrote: You kind of touched on the fun aspect at the end of your post by treating yourself to a new car. To each their own. I'm more of a travel guy.

Sure there might be something fun about what was then my new car, rather than buying used cars for the previous 20 years; however, I was not really considering my new car to be fun, but more of a kind of reward for myself in that I had established a pretty decent investment cushion by the time that I converted from considering used cars to a new car.

I had always had a car since I was 15 years old, so I never really questioned about having a car, it was merely a matter of what kind of car, and when I got the new car it was considered a reward, but still a certain amount of utility and also maybe a little bit of a status shot too, since I bought a luxury vehicle, but I was using my car for work, too.

I think that another one of my subliminal points about the new car versus considering a used car was that I knew a lot of people who were in similar status and income as me, but they would buy new cars, and new cars depreciate a lot in their first few years and they would even buy nice cars that seemed to end up putting strains on their budget. I am just using that buying used cars versus new car idea as a way to save money rather than the fun angle of having a car.

I think that my thinking about travel would be similar too, and there might be trade-offs with travel and being able to build a nest egg. Sometimes there are jobs that involve travel, and sometimes that could be a way to incorporate the travel in a way that helps with building an investment budget. If a guy has not yet established his nest egg of an investment budget, then it might be a bit imprudent to be spending a lot on consumption such as $1k to $10k per year extra on travel that could be invested. There are surely going to be trade offs regarding how to budget the matter, and whether it is considered consumption or investment.. and in what stage of building investments (accumulation, maintenance or liquidation) a guy considers himself to be.



(02-06-2020, 09:04 PM)ChicagoFire Wrote: As for learning I'm simple, I don't like tracking down the latest stock pointer or the new secret Gold hoarding site. I'll rotate investing in different asset classes about every month or two. 

Fair enough... there can be a certain aspect of investing.. in which you consider your investments long term, so that if you were in a coma for 5 or 10 years, you would feel happy with your choice, which kind of implies an intent to let them ride, rather than to play around with your choices.


(02-06-2020, 09:04 PM)ChicagoFire Wrote: As for bitcoin I still think you should have exposure to it. Could it hit 100K or 0 per coin? Beats me, don't mortgage the house with that particular asset. I agree with having a long term strategy with bitcoin. People like to day trade but I think it's a waste of time. Always remember to file your taxes properly, that's how the feds nab you. 

If you are making long term investments into bitcoin and accumulating BTC you do not have anything to claim because you are not selling.

(02-06-2020, 09:04 PM)ChicagoFire Wrote: Agreed. I picked this up from Samseau that if you owe money it's not the end of the world since inflation will eat the debt away. You're paying your debts off with devalued money. I like to apply for new 0% credit cards and keep repeating the cycle. This is just one way of gaming the system and others include buying in bulk and gaming your business credit card (I seriously need to get my ass on that project I've been thinking about!)

Cannot argue with you there. There can be benefits in playing the system to your advantage, but you need to figure out that what you are doing is benefiting you.. and the 0% credit cards are really great as long as you pay them off, but they might have a 3% or 4% initiation fee... which needs to be taken into account.... I remember in the early 2000s, there were no fees on those 0% promotional rates.. but around 2006 or maybe it was a bit later, they started to have initiation fees.

(02-06-2020, 09:04 PM)ChicagoFire Wrote: With FIRE themes like invest 10% of your check to a sunny day fund repeats itself. I haven't read everything under the sun but if I have to see another "learn to cook don't eat out" OR "ride the bus instead of own a car" blog post I'm leaving that site fast. Some of the smarter marketers like Wall Street Playboys have to sensationalize their posts otherwise people will go read another blog. 

One last parting shot, Millionaire Fastlane is a great mentality book. My problem is not executing, partly because I have my hands full nowadays. If you're a normie that thinks government is going to pay your 401K you're on the slow lane and by the time the riots start I'll be out of America.

There have been predictions of doom and gloom to America and its social security system for a long time, and yeah there have been movements away from pension systems to 401k which are a lot less guaranteed in terms of getting a set benefit once you become eligible, and sure there are matching amounts that vary from employer to employer, too. I surely have my doubts about the Armageddon to America projections, yet I do believe that bitcoin does help to hedge in regards to a decent number of Armageddon scenarios.. so in that regard, it does not hurt to have plans for a variety of scenarios to the extent feasible. I have preached my fair share against the gold bugs who seem to be relying on an Armageddon scenario for their preparations to work out, and it seems quite irrational to me to be putting much more than 10% preparations into 1% scenarios, even though 1% preparations might even be more prudent, but each of us are going to calculate the probabilities of Armageddon scenarios differently, so fair enough that some guys might be making preparations that are way greater than I would consider to be prudent and/or practical.
Reply
#84
If there's a domestic travel ban in America, what stocks will benefit from this?
Reply
#85
Have not yet invested in stocks, but I think now is the perfect time to do so.
Reply
#86
(03-15-2020, 11:05 PM)bigbadpua Wrote: Have not yet invested in stocks, but I think now is the perfect time to do so.

Perfect time?  I don't think it is even close just yet.  It could be a good time to start dollar cost averaging into the market but I personally think it is still too soon. Once the major indexes fall to 2015 levels, then I will start that DCA strategy.
Favorite Countries:  Finland, Latvia, Ukraine, Serbia, Montenegro, Georgia, Japan, Argentina.

Countries For Future Travel:  Norway, Sweden, Uruguay, Paraguay, Bosnia, Macedonia, Moldova, Uzbekistan.
Reply
#87
What sites are you guys using to buy stocks? How do you compare with 2015 levels?
Reply
#88
(03-17-2020, 06:02 AM)churros Wrote: What sites are you guys using to buy stocks? How do you compare with 2015 levels?

Use a discount broker like TD Ameritrade or even better, Vanguard.  

It is very simple to look at the historical graphs of the Dow, S&P 500, and the Nasdaq on a site like Yahoo Finance to determine the levels they fall to.
Favorite Countries:  Finland, Latvia, Ukraine, Serbia, Montenegro, Georgia, Japan, Argentina.

Countries For Future Travel:  Norway, Sweden, Uruguay, Paraguay, Bosnia, Macedonia, Moldova, Uzbekistan.
Reply
#89
(03-17-2020, 05:03 AM)Contrarian Expatriate Wrote:
(03-15-2020, 11:05 PM)bigbadpua Wrote: Have not yet invested in stocks, but I think now is the perfect time to do so.

Perfect time?  I don't think it is even close just yet.  It could be a good time to start dollar cost averaging into the market but I personally think it is still too soon. Once the major indexes fall to 2015 levels, then I will start that DCA strategy.

Yeah I didnt mean right now as in today. Ill keep an eye on the market, research the best online broker (Im German and seem to be stuck here now even I havent lived here for 10 years), and then invest with a longtime strategy. Im already invested in p2p platforms, and they seem to be doing well in the crisis, so I gonna top up my investement there as well.
Reply
#90
I've been buying pretty some small/mid-cap ETFs pretty aggressively - IWN (Russell 2000), XBI (SMID-cap biotech), and a little bit of VOO and VYM. Russell 2000 is now down 40% from its peak and reached the early 2016 support.

Obviously things can keep going downhill, but I think the risk-reward at these levels is far more attractive than a month ago, even if you assume many companies essentially have no profits for the next 1.5 years.
Reply
#91
(03-20-2020, 07:18 PM)Dali Wrote: I've been buying pretty some small/mid-cap ETFs pretty aggressively - IWN (Russell 2000), XBI (SMID-cap biotech), and a little bit of VOO and VYM. Russell 2000 is now down 40% from its peak and reached the early 2016 support.

Obviously things can keep going downhill, but I think the risk-reward at these levels is far more attractive than a month ago, even if you assume many companies essentially have no profits for the next 1.5 years.

You are still kind of assuming that we are either done falling or close to being done falling, which seems to be slightly against the "trend is your friend" assessment.  Of course, if we get a bounce that lasts at least a few days, at least, then it becomes a bit more plausible to assert that the down trend is close to being over.  I do also understand the concept that sometimes a reversal will be quick and violent, so there is that dynamic, too (but quick reversal is not feeling too likely in the current macro news situation).
Reply
#92
Rhodium is the biggest loser yet.
Before the mania , just 2 weeks ago it was 11,500 per oz. Sits at 2000 per oz now.
Reply
#93
(03-20-2020, 07:18 PM)Dali Wrote: I've been buying pretty some small/mid-cap ETFs pretty aggressively - IWN (Russell 2000), XBI (SMID-cap biotech), and a little bit of VOO and VYM. Russell 2000 is now down 40% from its peak and reached the early 2016 support.

Obviously things can keep going downhill, but I think the risk-reward at these levels is far more attractive than a month ago, even if you assume many companies essentially have no profits for the next 1.5 years.
In the long run, you will be fine.  No one knows the bottom, and you very well might be jumping in closer than any of us will.  

I'm holding out till the S&P 500 is down to 40%.  Once there, I'll put in half, then dollar cost average the rest.

(03-20-2020, 09:07 PM)Daryush Neubache Wrote: Rhodium is the biggest loser yet.
Before the mania , just 2 weeks ago it was 11,500 per oz. Sits at 2000 per oz now.

Great news.  I bought Rhodium when it was at below 1000, then sold at about 2000.   Might want to look at loading up again.   For me Rhodium is an even better play than Bitcoin.  But you have to hold it physically.
Favorite Countries:  Finland, Latvia, Ukraine, Serbia, Montenegro, Georgia, Japan, Argentina.

Countries For Future Travel:  Norway, Sweden, Uruguay, Paraguay, Bosnia, Macedonia, Moldova, Uzbekistan.
Reply
#94
(03-21-2020, 12:28 AM)Contrarian Expatriate Wrote:
(03-20-2020, 09:07 PM)Daryush Neubache Wrote: Rhodium is the biggest loser yet.
Before the mania , just 2 weeks ago it was 11,500 per oz. Sits at 2000 per oz now.

Great news.  I bought Rhodium when it was at below 1000, then sold at about 2000.   Might want to look at loading up again.   For me Rhodium is an even better play than Bitcoin.  But you have to hold it physically.


Oh gawd!!!! Contrarian providing comparative asset bitcoin naysaying advice again.

I imagine that you are referring to Rhodium, whatever the hell that is, as some kind of short-term play, suggesting that it is somehow undervalued currently.

On the other hand, if you consider bitcoin as a long term value investment, I doubt that Rhodium or any other PMs are going to really be able to perform, at least in the various superior attributes of bitcoin, to the extent that they are understood as verified scarcity, divisibility, verifiable authenticity, portability... so, even though a lot of folks seem to be downplaying the present value and even the future value of bitcoin based on tangibility and even lack of industrial use, it is likely going to become clear that bitcoin is offering a sufficient amount of paradigm shifting attributes that will end up playing out in quite shocking ways for the bitcoin naysayers and fence sitters like you, Contrarian. Remember, you are waiting for $2k-ish BTC prices? hahahahaha perhaps, perhaps.. but really, seems to be a bit of a hopium rather than really understanding what bitcoin actually is and offers.
Reply
#95
Rhodium is a metal in the Platinum metals group. It's a byproduct of Platinum and palladium mining and is the rarest metal in the Platinum metals group.

I also bought it at sub 1000 levels and sold out when it was 4000. The problems are that it has a huge spread even in normal times , I sold it for 3600 when it was at 4k. Also it's sold either as powder or as ingots . Most of the interest is industrial so there is not a big market for the ingots. I probably wouldn't buy again until sub 750.
Reply
#96
(03-21-2020, 01:13 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:
(03-21-2020, 12:28 AM)Contrarian Expatriate Wrote:
(03-20-2020, 09:07 PM)Daryush Neubache Wrote: Rhodium is the biggest loser yet.
Before the mania , just 2 weeks ago it was 11,500 per oz. Sits at 2000 per oz now.

Great news.  I bought Rhodium when it was at below 1000, then sold at about 2000.   Might want to look at loading up again.   For me Rhodium is an even better play than Bitcoin.  But you have to hold it physically.


Oh gawd!!!!  Contrarian providing comparative asset bitcoin naysaying advice again.

I imagine that you are referring to Rhodium, whatever the hell that is, as some kind of short-term play, suggesting that it is somehow undervalued currently.

On the other hand, if you consider bitcoin as a long term value investment, I doubt that Rhodium or any other PMs are going to really be able to perform, at least in the various superior attributes of bitcoin, to the extent that they are understood as verified scarcity, divisibility, verifiable authenticity, portability... so, even though a lot of folks seem to be downplaying the present value and even the future value of bitcoin based on tangibility and even lack of industrial use, it is likely going to become clear that bitcoin is offering a sufficient amount of paradigm shifting attributes that will end up playing out in quite shocking ways for the bitcoin naysayers and fence sitters like you, Contrarian.  Remember, you are waiting for $2k-ish BTC prices?  hahahahaha  perhaps, perhaps.. but really, seems to be a bit of a hopium rather than really understanding what bitcoin actually is and offers.

Shilling for Bitcoin and making excuses for its every deep plunge might be better served on the Bitcoin thread.  This one is for people who aren't crypto-broke and whose holdings actually make them money.
Favorite Countries:  Finland, Latvia, Ukraine, Serbia, Montenegro, Georgia, Japan, Argentina.

Countries For Future Travel:  Norway, Sweden, Uruguay, Paraguay, Bosnia, Macedonia, Moldova, Uzbekistan.
Reply
#97
(03-21-2020, 01:33 AM)Daryush Neubache Wrote: Rhodium is a metal in the Platinum metals group. It's a byproduct of Platinum and palladium mining and is the rarest metal in the Platinum metals group.

I also bought it at sub 1000 levels and sold out when it was 4000. The problems are that it has a huge spread even in normal times , I sold it for 3600 when it was at 4k. Also it's sold either as powder or as ingots . Most of the interest is industrial so there is not a big market for the ingots. I probably wouldn't buy again until sub 750.

Fair enough.

I am not really bashing any guys for their ideas to invest in Rhodium or Platinum or Palladium... because guys can make those kinds of allocation choices.  I was more inclined to question Contrarian's ongoing negation efforts in regards to bitcoin, including the fact that bitcoin is actually a paradigm shifting asset class, so even if bitcoin is not a physical and tangible asset, it has a lot of very interesting attributes that should be attractive to any investor who is seeking some ways to attempt to have some investment stake in likely non-correlated asset.  It is problematic to cursorily dismiss bitcoin at an investment, which seems to be Contrarian's habit, including the fact that he doesn't seem to know too much about bitcoin, except that he is hoping that it goes to $2k, which seems pie in the sky hopening, at best.

(03-21-2020, 01:40 AM)Contrarian Expatriate Wrote:
(03-21-2020, 01:13 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote: [edited out]

Shilling for Bitcoin and making excuses for its every deep plunge might be better served on the Bitcoin thread.  This one is for people who aren't crypto-broke and whose holdings actually make them money.

Did someone die and put you in charge of this forum?   Smile Smile    Tongue

If you had not noticed (while you were busy getting excited making up shit), I was responding to your earlier comment.  Otherwise, sure, I would rather post about bitcoin in the bitcoin thread, but if bitcoin comes up in another thread, such as this one, then I don't see how it would be a problem for me (or anyone else) to attempt to clarify matters, to the extent that clarification might be helpful to guys - especially when, in several of your earlier posts, you seem to be ongoingly involved in making misrepresentations in regards to bitcoin, and you have also shown that you hardly know shit about bitcoin, except that you hope that bitcoin goes down in price (several times you said that you are hoping for $2k)... which hardly seems to be reality-based information... as far as I can tell, so far from any of your discussion of the matter to date.
Reply
#98
Quote:JayJuanGee

....It has a lot of very interesting attributes that should be attractive to any investor who is seeking some ways to attempt to have some investment stake in likely non-correlated asset.



I like this video.  Intelligent investors will see it as mere confirmation of what they already know about Bitcoin.  Brokecoiners will see it and want to make excuses and rationalizations about why catastrophic Bitcoin losses could never happen to them.



If you want to be affluent, ignore the Bitcoin cheerleaders, touts, and shills so you can invest intelligently and with peace of mind.
Favorite Countries:  Finland, Latvia, Ukraine, Serbia, Montenegro, Georgia, Japan, Argentina.

Countries For Future Travel:  Norway, Sweden, Uruguay, Paraguay, Bosnia, Macedonia, Moldova, Uzbekistan.
Reply
#99
(03-21-2020, 03:56 AM)Contrarian Expatriate Wrote:
Quote:JayJuanGee

....It has a lot of very interesting attributes that should be attractive to any investor who is seeking some ways to attempt to have some investment stake in likely non-correlated asset.



I like this video.  Intelligent investors will see it as mere confirmation of what they already know about Bitcoin.  Brokecoiners will see it and want to make excuses and rationalizations about why catastrophic Bitcoin losses could never happen to them.



If you want to be affluent, ignore the Bitcoin cheerleaders, touts, and shills so you can invest intelligently and with peace of mind.

I don't know whether I should laugh or cry, Contrarian.

The above attached video (about 7 minutes) is even more non-representative of what bitcoin is about than the other video that you posted on the bitcoin thread last week.  I already commented on your posting of the other video in the bitcoin thread, and it seems that you did not even understand the meaning of that particular video.  

This above attached video discusses 3 examples of ways that bitcoins were lost through poor efforts at securing private keys (not taking bitcoin seriously and losing keys).  One example of a guy who traded to make profits in bitcoin and then lose all his money by continuing to make bad bitcoin trades. Another poorly described (actually inaccurately described) example of the current MT GOX non-resolution of lost coins and bankruptcy proceedings in Japan, and another example of how NEM coins were lost on an exchange (NEM is not bitcoin, but still I suppose that does not matter, because the guy does not know what the fuck he is talking about in half the video, similar to Contrarian not knowing what the fuck bitcoin is, either... go figure, but they both want to talk about it, as if they know something important.... hahahahaha).  

Overall, I would suggest that the video might be an interesting angle about some anecdotal evidence, yet hardly even reflective of what bitcoin is or is about.  

Actually there are probably more than 100 examples of various schemes in bitcoin, hacks and exit scams, and even more examples if we were to analyze the ICO (initial coin offering examples, too, and the various shitcoins that get attributed to being related to bitcoin because they are attempting to be copy cats, and get rich quick schemes, etc etc).  

Some of the ideas of maintaining your own coins has helped the proliferation of the mantra "not your keys, not your coins,"  which is meant to teach responsibility and values in attempting to learn how to safeguard your own keys and not to entrust your keys to others.  Surely not going to stop people from taking shortcuts, and surely, it is not easy to be your own bank, which is a dynamic that is offered through bitcoin and might not have really been available through other assets without considerable difficulties (such as the weight of holding gold or the difficulties in verifying it).  

Anyhow, if you want to hold your own assets there are certain safeguards that are possible to be taken, so that is likely a reason for guys to learn about some of these kinds of matters related to bitcoin early and attempt to practice and learn about bitcoin as a paradigm shifting phenomenon, so that guys might be in a good place to understand the actual innovative aspect of the bitcoin space, rather than FUD and misinformation that is frequently propagated through mainstream media and wannabe gurus like Contrarian, who hardly know shit (have I said that yet... hahahahaha), and also bitcoin potentially can serve as a tool that is a powerful way of having control over your own value that really had not been available previously... even thinking about storing thousands of dollars in your mattress might not be so practical when it comes time to move it.  

For example, one of the powerful use cases of bitcoin that might resonate with STW guys is the ability to have a lot of value and potentially millions or billions of dollars of value and to be able to move that value any place in the world within seconds, and no one can stop anyone from doing it.  Now, figuring out various liquidation avenues varies from region to region and is continuing to be a bit of an evolving space.   How much value can you move in Gold without being considerably encumbered?  Of course, moving money electronically will go through banks, and sometimes there might be "issues" with getting your own money, no?

   I suppose that if you have hundreds of thousands of dollars, or some other valuables that you might want to move, you probably could buy some protection (such as expensive lawyers), but with bitcoin, no third party is necessary for small amounts or BIG amounts.. which seems pretty damned powerful to me, but there still may be needs for creative means to make sure that you do not lose your coins or that you know of various ways to liquidate depending on where you are at.  

Of course, there are a lot of other powerful aspects in regards to holding bitcoin, but sometimes you have to use your imagination or search around to figure out if it might work for you, and there could be some difficulties in learning how to manage your own storage without losing your private keys, and probably that remains part of the reason that so many people will still hold their value on exchanges or with third parties, which could lead to a lot of difficulties if guys try to withdraw their coins.  

Anyhow, a lot of the best practices recommendations in regards to bitcoin continue to be that guys figure out ways to hold their own private keys and to take adequate safeguards in holding their own keys, but a lot of those recommendations are going to NOT even make sense to no coiners and bitcoin naysayers like Contrarian because he is NOT even talking from actual experience, but instead relying on what he has heard about the matter.  Contrarian is too busy waiting for $2k bitcoins, and just wondering how genuine he can be even about that, when he is hardly even trying to represent matters in any kind of even half way accurate way.
Reply
So how easy is it to lose the "key" to the bitcoins in your cyber vault? How easy is it for someone else to access them and steal them or devalue them? OK if it sounds dumb then shame me. I admit I don't know how this thing works. I guess I'm old school and like to know my access to my wealth is as safe as possible. I realize we are one electromagnetic pulse from being in deep trouble. I also realize that hackers can drain your accounts so fast it will make your head spin. It's still possible, even likely to be recompensed (except for an electromagnetic weapon) but what happens if your bitcoins are raided? Yeah I know if it sounds dumb so be it but I am curious.
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 3 Guest(s)