[FR] A Dead Bat in Bogota
#41
(02-24-2021, 08:43 PM)Shimmy Wrote: They spoke Spanish to you because you're in a Spanish speaking country.  It doesn't matter what you look like.  Especially since 95% of the country doesnt speak any English.

Quite a few Colombians in the international bar I hit up thought I was Colombian until I opened my mouth.

I always called the Philippines the 'hispanics of Asians', since we share a similar heritage to South Americans. Being half-white seems to expound upon any Latin features I possess

(02-24-2021, 08:47 PM)AirWaves Wrote: ^ I could see how a half Flip half white passes for Colombian.

When I was in Mexico a few months ago, I passed for a brown Mexican, but my heritage is also SEA (and only SEA).

OP, it looks like you haven't met any other forum members.

None in Milwaukee, I understand, but Chicago as well?

Maybe!

I'm a very open dude and I like meeting guys who're heavily involved in the game as well

(02-24-2021, 08:52 PM)Scotian Wrote:
(02-24-2021, 04:27 PM)Hegemon1984 Wrote: A friend of mine who I winged with read my field report and gave me the following advice. He's insanely good and felt it'd be proper to post it here:

Dope. Four big takeaways I see from this:
  1. You got meaningful experience pulling sets and leading: This is huge. Even if you didn’t fuck any of the girls, you still pulled. Should make it easier to bounce girls from a mall instadate to drinks at a nearby bar to your apartment, etc. It also exposed you to logistical difficulties you can face when you’re rolling solo but gaming sets. Usually in those situations, I’ll lean on the girl to try to get isolation so I’m not pulling extra people back to the house, “Tell your friends you like me,” “Tell your friends we’re gonna grab food,” “What’re you doing later? Can you ditch your friends?” Or the other option is to go with the group and hope there are somewhat workable logistics there. 


  2. You got meaningful experience with mixed sets: Most guys won’t open mixed sets. Most guys definitely won’t open mixed sets during night game when they’re out solo. That’s dope. Plus, you even got guys winging you. Textbook. You have a good social vibe by default, but working groups will help you get out of ‘hunter mode’ and more in ‘give value, have fun’ mode, which should improved your vibe overall. Plus, you’ll get to calibrate to a lot of different personality types more quickly working groups vs solo girls, which will improve your overall calibration much more quickly (and is super applicable to career success, where you have to get groups on your side to be anything more than a workhorse or a pawn). I’d continue to work nights at least once or twice a week just to round out your skillset.


  3. You learned to chill out a little: You know how you have the assumption that just being American in Colombia gives you a ton of value? If you can assume that same amount of value here in the States, girls will respond the same way. Ya, you’ll still have to be more gamey, especially at night, but one of your sticking points here for a while was trying to keep gaming when the girls already saw you as high value. Once you fully believe in your own value and fully internalize it and act out from that, girls will fall into that frame and eventually you’ll have to drop a lot of the high value stuff for a lot of sets.


  4. You (hopefully) learned not to game under the influence: Broooo lol. Your two big L’s in Colombia were both trying to game under the influence. It seems like an easy way out, but it’s such a disadvantage. Think about it: If you’re going out solo, you want to be the most sober dude in the room. Stuff can and does pop off. I’ve seen dudes get curb stomped, almost thrown off balconies, I’ve had good friend who got shot and killed over bar drama, I’ve watched really high value dudes totally throw their life away over coke. The stakes are real, man. What makes this even more risky is that game helps you shed your inhibitions and boosts your confidence. So do drugs and alcohol. If you put both of those together, it’s damn near impossible to calibrate and you will end up on the wrong end of things. Keep your eye on the prize. Get the reference of fucking girls when you’re stone cold sober and having girls fuck you when they’re also stone cold sober. I flat out won’t fuck a drunk girl–and I’m damn sure not gonna try to get them drunk on my dime (whole other can of worms that one can open up, especially if you’re not pro yet at holding frame and managing buyer’s remorse). Plus, that lifestyle just isn’t sustainable as you get older (one hangover and I’m off for days).


  5. Don’t judge a book by its cover: Good game is all fundamentally the same, but it has a million different presentations. With the Argentinian, you fucked yourself by looking at the surface level vs. paying attention to the subcommunications. This probably went way beyond just him being able to speak Spanish. Two ways I can tell tell a guy is most likely good with women is 1.) His voice and 2.) His eyes. I’ve met some very, very unassuming naturals, guys who, by looking at them (even in set), you would never suspect are total pimps. Really good game can be almost indistinguishable from regular convo unless you really know what to look for; it can even look pretty boring a lot of the time. Eventually this is something that you’ll be able to work to your advantage since you won’t be setting off as many of the socially-conditioned alarms in mixed sets vs. a 6’5 jacked dude or some Calvin Klein model-looking guy, especially once you get to a point where you can subcomm a lot of your value.


  6. Don’t make women your goal: Flags are for poles lol. But it goes beyond that–as soon as you make a woman the goal, you’re already gaming at a massive disadvantage. Your ego starts needing her to preserve or actualize an idealized image of yourself. You put too much pressure on yourself. You put too much pressure on the girl (she wants to aspire to you and see you as the prize). You fuck with your outcome independence. You artificially limit your abundance. The flags’ll come on their own and then eventually you’ll be like, fuck it, I can’t even remember anymore (Roosh never got to the that point, since his game was trash and he never internalized abundance and constantly saw himself as ‘ sneaking in and getting away with the sex’–take inspiration where you can, he had a lot of good ideas and was a talented writer, but he should be a bit of a cautionary tale for anyone getting in the game. Plus, you’re not the underdog. You’re not tricking these girls. You should be working to embody being a high value man.). Same principle goes for “types” of girls (think the ethnic dudes who pedestalize white girls and then bitch about how they can never fuck them), girls of a certain hotness rating (i.e., the guys who can fuck any girl beside their “perfect ten” or can’t approach legit hotties), girls of a certain “virtue” (the dudes who Madonna-Whore it up and then never get the “good” girl since he never games her proper or thinks she doesn’t want sex or ends up with an undercover slut who never shares her secrets since she can tell he’s judgmental), or doing certain numbers (like how I could never pull 3 new girls in a week when it was a goal for me vs. when I stopped caring about it). None of these things can be your goal. Just making them a goal will sabotage things for you. It sounds cheesy, but you gotta make yourself your goal and focus on your actions (fully within your control) instead of the outcomes (not fully within your control) and to base your self-worth on that. Better goals would be things like: Have as much fun as possible. Open any girls I like. Open difficult sets. Stay in set until someone tells me to fuck off. Try to pull girls out the venue. See how far I can lead girls on the street. Always escalate. Focus on maintaining my own state and staying upbeat even when girls flake. Etc., etc. Your results will be way, way better focusing on those things instead of looking at the girl as the prize. Just food for thought.

But overall, tons of value here. Take the time to milk it for all it’s worth and really internalize those references.

This is pretty good general life advice, I don't read much PUA stuff but most of this makes sense to me.



(02-24-2021, 05:39 PM)Hegemon1984 Wrote:
(02-24-2021, 05:35 PM)churros Wrote: What age are you? Have you gotten honest and objective feedback about your visual appearance and general vibe from people that know you?

28. And yes, Swoop the World is only one of many PUA sites/Discord channels/FB groups/private subreddits/etc I visit to get game knowledge. 

I'm a 7 looks-wise and naturally have a very fun vibe... if I'm not gaming.

When I game, I tend to get very strategic and technical.


I think this is your biggest problem, you're too into this stuff. I give you props for rolling solo, getting out there and talking to people in real life also for booking a ticket to a big crazy city like Bogota, especially during a pandemic, however, I don't think you realize how lucky you are with this chicas who drugged you, a lot of guys end up much worse, some die. Next time be more careful dude, going out alone in Colombia can be pretty sketchy, as you now know. I was your age when I first landed in Bogota over nine years ago, I didn't get laid for my first three weeks but was lucky to meet up with some bilingual local dudes to show me the ropes, I used to pay them to take me out drinking, partying and meeting chicas. Bogota is fucking tough city alone.

I think you should focus less on PUA and more on Spanish skills and saving money to come back down for a longer trip.

Thanks Scotian.

Yeah, Bogota was a fun enough city that I'd return to it. When I was leaving, I distinctly recall something 'special' about Colombia. Like, this is how men and women should hook up. It's normal, not like the States where you're playing a chess game or at war with the opposite gender. Even though I didn't get the notch, it'd take a little bit of reprogramming for me to become successful here.
The man who thinks he can and the man who thinks he can't are both right.” - Confucius

“Flirting is not just something you say or do. It is something you embody.“ - Todd V

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#42
(02-24-2021, 06:33 PM)Hegemon1984 Wrote:
(02-24-2021, 06:18 PM)wellrockthecity Wrote: hey OP you missed a big piece of info about yourself - what do you look like and what race are you?
This is very important for us to give you a more appropiate feedback

I believe I posted it above. I'm a 7 looks wise and I'm half-Filipino / half-White.

Interesting side note: Lots of Colombians thought I was Colombian, so they'd start speaking Spanish to me.

"I believe I posted it above. I'm a 7 looks wise and I'm half-Filipino / half-White.


Interesting side note: Lots of Colombians thought I was Colombian, so they'd start speaking Spanish to me"

Ok...OK... now it all makes sense, why you struggled in Colombia and maybe that's why you decided NOT to use OLD from the get go(not many matches), even though you might not want to admit it. I suspected the real reason. You are NOT novelty there. Easy bangs come from novelty. You had a short trip, thus you needed easy bangs. You look Colombian(negative). Yes I know, some latino looking guys(brunette/dark eyes/ skin)clean up down there but it's in the margins. Blonde, blue eyes and white are the ones that will do well in Colombia and LATM for that matter EASILY. I'm shocked that many still try to invent the wheel on this. The info is all out there. Girls in each country by in large have a type they desire. If you are not their type it will take much more bullshit/clown game and time( to which you didn't have). 

Now I must give you props for being so honest. My hat goes off to you.

You're going to hit up EE?. This is where you will most likely see a huge improvement, as you ARE novelty there. This is exactly why Roosh went there. I hope you do well.

Cheers,
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#43
(02-24-2021, 11:31 PM)akms76 Wrote: If you are not their type it will take much more bullshit/clown game and time( to which you didn't have).


Clown game does not work in Bogota.  This is one of the reasons he bombed there.  Also I know many non Colombian latinos who kill it in Colombia.  Colombian guys too.  As a matter of fact an upper class Colombian guy who is decent looking and dresses will will do better than almost any gringo arriving to Colombia.  I would say most Colombian girls would date a gringo but not as many girls as you would think chase guys just because they are a gringo.  People have a false perception of this because in a city of 10 million people even if 1% of women are obsessed with banging gringos that's tens of thousands of women and there are much less gringos to go around.  It's just supply and demand.
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#44
(02-25-2021, 12:56 AM)Shimmy Wrote:
(02-24-2021, 11:31 PM)akms76 Wrote: If you are not their type it will take much more bullshit/clown game and time( to which you didn't have).


Clown game does not work in Bogota.  This is one of the reasons he bombed there.  Also I know many non Colombian latinos who kill it in Colombia.  Colombian guys too. a matter of fact an upper class Colombian guy who is decent looking and dresses will will do better than almost any gringo arriving to Colombia.  I would say most Colombian girls would date a gringo but not as many girls as you would think chase guys just because they are a gringo.  People have a false perception of this because in a city of 10 million people even if 1% of women are obsessed with banging gringos that's tens of thousands of women and there are much less gringos to go around.  It's just supply and demand.
matter of fact an upper class Colombian guy who is decent looking and dresses will will do better than almost any gringo arriving to Colombia" I agree, never disputed social status game, it's king in LATM but remember we are talking about sex tourists here. Lets stick to the subject at hand. A Gringo tourist that wants EASY and Quick sex like OP was hoping, must be a novelty for her and I know it butt hurts guys who are not but the easiest way is to be blonde, blue eyes and white. Sorry but it's a fact. Like I said, other Latinos can kill it but it's in the margins. Jose the yard/Kitchen/Construction guy from Mexico or Guatemala is NOT killing it in Colombia. The killing is reserved for a CERTAIN type Latino that fits the mold. However Mark/Brian the average looking blonde blue eyed white guy that doesn't even work and lives with his parents can and will succeed in Colombia Easily. To clarify, said Gringo is unlikely to get a High value Female or even a very attractive one. Rather the upper class Colombian will get this type of girl, for the most part.



I have no false impressions my friend, this is fact, boots on the ground experience for over 15 years, living/dating there as well as living with Colombians and learning about their culture. I have many examples/stories but I'm not going to bore this thread.
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#45
Props for taking initiative to fly down there solo and the honest reporting of your trip and experience with the Rolas. 

And plenty of great advice from your buddy, from churros, Mikestar, Shimmy, Scotian, and Red Pill Brotherhood.

I haven't been to Bogota in 7 years, but near everything they said rings true in my experience.

Hope some day you can spend more time there at some point and find a way to enjoy yourself more naturally with the girls. Learning a bit of Spanish will take you miles.

All of that "PUA" shit is stupid and unnecessary there.
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#46
(02-24-2021, 02:05 AM)SC87 Wrote: So you are a high value American "pickup artist" that spent 9 days in Colombia including 76 "approaches" but you still didn't get laid?

Yeah, I think the guy's heart is in the right place and the original post was a good read, but that is god awful, actually kind of concerning.  If I do five approaches with top quality women and don't bang, something is either seriously wrong or I'm either in Mexico or Argentina.

(02-24-2021, 10:30 AM)Cattle Rustler Wrote: I'm introverted (sus about others), extroverted with alcohol, yet got laid consistently.

I'm the most introverted person I've ever met, but I guess I know how to flip the switch and know what the hell I'm doing when I do flip the switch.
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#47
(02-25-2021, 02:26 AM)akms76 Wrote:
(02-25-2021, 12:56 AM)Shimmy Wrote:
(02-24-2021, 11:31 PM)akms76 Wrote: If you are not their type it will take much more bullshit/clown game and time( to which you didn't have).


Clown game does not work in Bogota.  This is one of the reasons he bombed there.  Also I know many non Colombian latinos who kill it in Colombia.  Colombian guys too. a matter of fact an upper class Colombian guy who is decent looking and dresses will will do better than almost any gringo arriving to Colombia.  I would say most Colombian girls would date a gringo but not as many girls as you would think chase guys just because they are a gringo.  People have a false perception of this because in a city of 10 million people even if 1% of women are obsessed with banging gringos that's tens of thousands of women and there are much less gringos to go around.  It's just supply and demand.
matter of fact an upper class Colombian guy who is decent looking and dresses will will do better than almost any gringo arriving to Colombia" I agree, never disputed social status game, it's king in LATM but remember we are talking about sex tourists here. Lets stick to the subject at hand. A Gringo tourist that wants EASY and Quick sex like OP was hoping, must be a novelty for her and I know it butt hurts guys who are not but the easiest way is to be blonde, blue eyes and white. Sorry but it's a fact. Like I said, other Latinos can kill it but it's in the margins. Jose the yard/Kitchen/Construction guy from Mexico or Guatemala is NOT killing it in Colombia. The killing is reserved for a CERTAIN type Latino that fits the mold. However Mark/Brian the average looking blonde blue eyed white guy that doesn't even work and lives with his parents can and will succeed in Colombia Easily. To clarify, said Gringo is unlikely to get a High value Female or even a very attractive one. Rather the upper class Colombian will get this type of girl, for the most part.



I have no false impressions my friend, this is fact, boots on the ground experience for over 15 years, living/dating there as well as living with Colombians and learning about their culture. I have many examples/stories but I'm not going to bore this thread.

I agree to an extent, but its not always the case. I went to Colombia last year (Bogota and Medillin) I'm of Mexican descent (Black hair, brown eyes) not white by any means, and had no problems with the women down there. 

A gringo tourist who is tall, jacked, blonde with blue eyes and is good looking, yeah he may get quick and easy sex from sluts on Tinder who are specifically looking to have sex with a gringo, and there is always a niche for that CERTAIN type of gringo. But if you are just a normal gringo with no game, I don't care who you are, you aren't getting shit. 

The notion that Jose the Mexican construction worker wouldn't get any play is also false. If Jose the Mexican construction worker has high game and is confident, he will get bitches in Colombia. Point blank period. 

It all comes down to game regardless of race. 

I tested this theory out because I went on this trip with my good friend who is a white guy, taller, and a good looking guy (no homo). Some things I noticed were that he did got a lot of choosing signals and IOI's from the women, but he was bad at game/approaching. He was very shy and blew a lot of chances at getting laid. I on the other hand was not getting the same IOI's and choosing signals from the women like my friend was, but I was an approach machine and talked to every cute girl I saw and ended up getting more women than he did. Also the language barrier was an issue for him given that he didn't speak much Spanish and I did which was a plus for me. 

One thing I did have going for me though was that even though I was still Latino, my Spanish accent was different than theirs, I have a Mexican accent, and a lot of the younger girls got a kick out of it. For many of the women, I was the first Mexican guy they have ever been with in their life, and they enjoyed talking to me about Mexican culture, etc... I would not underestimate the novelty Latinos have for each other. Colombians meeting Mexicans for the first time, Argentinians meeting Colombians for the first time, etc...
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#48
(02-25-2021, 02:26 AM)akms76 Wrote:
(02-25-2021, 12:56 AM)Shimmy Wrote:
(02-24-2021, 11:31 PM)akms76 Wrote: If you are not their type it will take much more bullshit/clown game and time( to which you didn't have).
 A Gringo tourist that wants EASY and Quick sex like OP was hoping, must be a novelty for her and I know it butt hurts guys who are not but the easiest way is to be blonde, blue eyes and white. Sorry but it's a fact. Like I said, other Latinos can kill it but it's in the margins. Jose the yard/Kitchen/Construction guy from Mexico or Guatemala is NOT killing it in Colombia. The killing is reserved for a CERTAIN type Latino that fits the mold. However Mark/Brian the average looking blonde blue eyed white guy that doesn't even work and lives with his parents can and will succeed in Colombia Easily. To clarify, said Gringo is unlikely to get a High value Female or even a very attractive one. Rather the upper class Colombian will get this type of girl, for the most part.


I think its almost always an advantage to NOT look like the local guy. (ex. White guy in Asia, Black guy in Europe). You will always have that ~10% who has a fetish for the exotic and a certain ethnic appearance.
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#49
^ I agree, as a guy of SEA heritage. All things being equal (including Game) having a novel look compared to the locals anywhere generally and relatively helps, unless said look has bad stereotypes associated with it there.

Separately, OP, why didn't you meet any forum members in Bogota?
If you haven't met anyone, I'll assume you're lying (h/t to Teedub from the old forum)
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#50
(02-25-2021, 06:23 AM)MidWest Wrote: One thing I did have going for me though was that even though I was still Latino, my Spanish accent was different than theirs, I have a Mexican accent, and a lot of the younger girls got a kick out of it. For many of the women, I was the first Mexican guy they have ever been with in their life, and they enjoyed talking to me about Mexican culture, etc... I would not underestimate the novelty Latinos have for each other. Colombians meeting Mexicans for the first time, Argentinians meeting Colombians for the first time, etc...

I had the same experience. I'm not sure I qualify as Latino (are BRs Latino?) but I feel I have an edge when traveling in LatAm because I am foreign but still a neighbor and somewhat familiar. Girls enjoy talking about cultural differences and such but I am not as distant from them as a guy from Sweden or whatever, so it's easier for me to connect. And they like the BR accent in Spanish.

Also, the perspective that Latin Americans are all the same is an American thing. National identities are strong in Latin America. Mexicans, Colombians, Argentinians, etc are all foreigners in each other's countries and not "latinos".
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#51
As others have said, respect for posting a honest report and sharing your failures and lessons learned. Being honest with yourself is the only way to improve IMO. 

Not knowing any Spanish is obviously going to hamper your ability to game in Colombia or any other Spanish speaking country for that matter. 

I think you are wayyyyy over thinking things and making this all too complicated. I have no idea what you're even talking about in regards to american game, comfort game, value game or bt.  

What has worked for me in Colombia and other latam countries is super basic: 

- Confidence and the confident body language to go along with it. Don't need to an asshole or act like something you're not, just carry yourself with confidence.
- Positive, playful, fun vibe - you don't have to be crazy energetic or extroverted to capture the vibe.
- Well dressed / groomed - whatever you're wearing make sure it's wrinkle free, clean, good condition, fashionable. 
- The traditional roles of male/female are stronger there. You need to be a man, again you don't have to be an asshole, overly macho, or some raging anti-feminist, but you need to be a man in the traditional sense. You're suppose to take the lead, make the decisions, be the protector, etc. 
- Don't be needy, the take it or leave it approach with a little push works best. 
- If you can dance bonus points. 

That's been my experience, maybe others have found the opposite, but I can say with certainty that you're overcomplicating things.
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#52
Good, honest report. What were the red flags the night those 3 girls stole from you? Did you approach them or they approached you?

I just wonder if this was a crime of opportunity or they were out looking for trouble. Seems like the best option is as another suggested -- get just one of them to come back with you. I think they feel less bold if they are solo.
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#53
(03-03-2021, 05:28 AM)WorldConquest Wrote: Good, honest report. What were the red flags the night those 3 girls stole from you? Did you approach them or they approached you?

I just wonder if this was a crime of opportunity or they were out looking for trouble. Seems like the best option is as another suggested -- get just one of them to come back with you. I think they feel less bold if they are solo.

The author of this thread is 5'6", calls himself a 7, with 8 lays lifetime by self-report.

But now he's pulling three girls back to his place without speaking the language. That's a red flag. 

I mentioned earlier how these stories are necessary to temper expectations. Peeling off a girl in a group of three same night is going to be challenging in this context, it's pretty hard in the ideal circumstances (States) without significant help. There's just enough social penalty for it except in the most libertine of circles.
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#54
(03-03-2021, 06:28 AM)dingdongditch Wrote:
(03-03-2021, 05:28 AM)WorldConquest Wrote: Good, honest report. What were the red flags the night those 3 girls stole from you? Did you approach them or they approached you?

I just wonder if this was a crime of opportunity or they were out looking for trouble. Seems like the best option is as another suggested -- get just one of them to come back with you. I think they feel less bold if they are solo.

The author of this thread is 5'6", calls himself a 7, with 8 lays lifetime by self-report.

But now he's pulling three girls back to his place without speaking the language. That's a red flag. 

I mentioned earlier how these stories are necessary to temper expectations. Peeling off a girl in a group of three same night is going to be challenging in this context, it's pretty hard in the ideal circumstances (States) without significant help. There's just enough social penalty for it except in the most libertine of circles.

Regardless of how challenging it is, bringing back three girls you just met, in a country which is unfamiliar to you, in a language you don't speak is a recipe for disaster.  I don't even approach groups of three girls, because your chances of banging decreases and chances of some kind of fuckery happening increases once you go beyond the pairs.  I see idiots approaching mixed sets, large groups of girls, and even girls who are with guys and having no success.
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