Poll: Will you take the vaccine?
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Yes
40.18%
45 40.18%
No
59.82%
67 59.82%
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Will you take the vaccine?
Here in Europe we have to wear masks even when outdoors.

I don't really care about the masks... I'm more pissed that all restaurants and shopping malls have been closed. I haven't had a beer and burger inside a pub since last summer.
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(04-11-2021, 07:47 AM)DEFCON Wrote:
(04-11-2021, 06:08 AM)Zenta Wrote: Alot of people I know in person here are getting the vaccine or are on their 1st out of 2 shots or just got the J&J 1 shot. couple family members as well. Its pretty much open to almost anyone at this point in my state. People pressuring me to get it but I'm not exactly jumping on the opportunity and don't really have much desire at the moment, I'm more interested in waiting it out longer to see how things play out.

Empirically the people that ought to prioritize taking it are those with compromised immune systems, elderly and overweight. I don't fit into any of these categories. I could care less. Seems like everyone is able to get it now, no more shortages, but I sense there are substantial percentage of people not wanting it. Recently for example a survey of US marines revealed fully 40 percent were planning on not getting it. I won't get it period. No reason to. Everyone else is free to get it if they want. I think risks are overstated. God knows I've taken far bigger gambles in my life and I don't even bother with flu vaccines why would this be any different? No amount of social pressure is gonna do anything for me. I've found I'm better informed on the thing than anyone I know, and most normies don't even understand the significance (and unprecedented) nature of a RNA vaccine. If they require it to travel I guess I won't travel, I've done plenty in my life, been to over 20 countries and that's probably enough.

The US situation so far seems to be improving without needing to vaccinate 70% or 80% of the people or whatever the latest insane percentages are that the usual "experts" demand. UK: almost no deaths, hospitals streaming empty, cases plummeting as 48% have had at least one shot. But they are still keeping intensive restrictions and winding them down slowly. Compare to the US states like Texas or Florida which have abolished all legal limits with a lower (but still better than the EU) vaccination rate, and it's the choice of businesses whether they want to enforce anything. And they are still not faring any worse.

Vaccinating the elderly and high-risk groups seems germane to the situation. Extend it to the vast majority of over-50s to be on the safe side. And anyone else who wants to take it, and anyone working in an industry where infectious diseases should be minimised. But the whole passport idea would be a complete nonstarter if we looked at the data, not drama, to borrow a phrase.

Meanwhile over here we still haven't vaccinated shit, bars and restaurants have been closed since October 2020, and there is snow and hailstorms in April. I think most people in the EU could only wish that "Will you take the vaccine?" was the biggest question in their lives at the moment.
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Also, the economic effect has been twice as bad in EU as in the US. Tough.
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(04-12-2021, 10:08 AM)Blake2 Wrote: Here in Europe we have to wear masks even when outdoors.

I don't really care about the masks... I'm more pissed that all restaurants and shopping malls have been closed. I haven't had a beer and burger inside a pub since last summer.

Well Im in Europe and I dont have to wear one outside. Most countries I know and where I have friends this is not asked at all. Which part of Europe is that? Spain?
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Yeah, can't generalise Europe. I think it's mainly Southern European countries that enforce outside mask mandates. Then UK, Netherlands, etc. have them mandated for enclosed spaces. Then there is Germany which I think mandates specifically "medical" masks (surgical masks or masks with a filter like FFP2 ones) indoors, but also with differences depending on which federal state you're in. Then there is Sweden which only recommends them for public transport but without any punishments (last time I checked). I also hear that they are mandatory in many Eastern European countries but not actually enforced or adhered to. A country like that could be stricter than the Netherlands in theory, but actually less strict in practice.

It's also becoming a bit of a side discussion. If a mask were the fig leaf required to have a more or less normal life otherwise, then I bet most people would take it. It's like with the question of whether you would take a vaccine: most people in the EU right now could only wish that that was their most pressing concern right now. It would always keep some people up at night wondering about slippery slopes and how much more they would be willing to accept, at which point they're going to say, "I AM going to die on this hill!" but the things themselves are not the problem. It's not like we would be fine and dandy without the mask mandate.

In general it's become impossible to have a rational discussion about corona measures because if you question one non-pharmaceutical intervention for which there is no proof, then all the other ones are undermined as well.

Not directly related to corona, but I found myself going back to this article about General Slim writing on leadership where the General writes the following about morale:

Quote: Morale is a state of mind. It is that intangible force which will move a whole group of men to give their last ounce to achieve something, without counting the cost to themselves; that makes them feel they are part of something greater than themselves. If they are to feel that, their morale must, if it is to endure–and the essence of morale is that it should endure–have certain foundations.

These foundations are spiritual, intellectual, and material, and that is the order of their importance. Spiritual first, because only spiritual foundations can stand real strain. Next intellectual, because men are swayed by reason as well as feeling. Material last–important, but last–because the very highest kinds of morale are often met when material conditions are lowest.

I remember sitting in my office and tabulating these foundations of morale something like this:

1. Spiritual

a. There must be a great and noble object.

b. Its achievement must be vital.

c. The method of achievement must be active, aggressive.

d. The man must feel that what he is and what he does matters directly towards the attainment of the object.

2. Intellectual

a. He must be convinced that the object can be attained; that it is not too out of reach.

b. He must see, too, that the organization to which he belongs and which is striving to attain the object is an efficient one.

c. He must have confidence in his leaders and know that whatever dangers and hardships he is called upon to suffer, his life will not be lightly flung away.

3. Material

a. The man must feel that he will get a fair deal from his commanders and from the army generally.

b. He must, as far as humanly possible, be given the best weapons and equipment for the task.

c. His living and working conditions must be made as good as they can be.

If we perceive the corona crisis as a "war" in which governments must take leadership, which of these conditions are currently being satisfied to keep the public unified and working towards a solution, vaccines or otherwise?
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(04-08-2021, 03:24 AM)akms76 Wrote: Still have to get the PCR test in 95% of countries to enter. I personally see no point unless it bypasses PCR testing.

I think you'll see PCR testing dropped as soon as governments are confident that their own populations are significantly resistant to spreading severe outbreaks internally.

I know some people are into the conspiracy theories, but there's a dollars-and-cents component behind suppressing hospitalizations, even in the United States, where we already spend more taxpayer money on healthcare per capita than Canada, before private spending. Governments aren't giving up tourism dollars because they want to. Outbreaks are never going to stop, but it's realistic that they will mostly stop resulting in hospitals getting slammed with ICU patients.

(04-11-2021, 11:52 PM)bigbadpua Wrote: Shit is gonna end for sure. Nothing last forever. I hate masks, but I wear them in the store for a few minutes. Leave the nose out, it aint too bad. Def beats arguing with security haha

If it meets the local requirements where you are, try finding a lightweight wool gaiter and double it over. You can pull it down around your collar so you don't have to carry it around or think about where it is, it's more breathable in thin layers, and I suspect it provides better droplet protection anyway since it filters around what would be the edges of a mask.

Plus, you get to look like you just got back from an old west stagecoach robbery.
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My compromise with the mask is I wear it below the nose. So far only the hysterical gay trainer at my gym gives me shit about it.
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(04-12-2021, 07:45 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote: My compromise with the mask is I wear it below the nose. So far only the hysterical gay trainer at my gym gives me shit about it.

I do the same and the ONLY people that tell me anything are white females above 40 years of age. Those sick fucks love power and I'm the enemy to them. I was in whole foods the other day with half mask on and a white woman over 40 comes up to me and says please put it up, meanwhile I was standing next to a blonde woman probably 35 and she had NO mask at all. The 40y woman cared less about the blonde woman without one, she targeted me instead. This proved to me that it's not about health, it's about power over others, especially over others deemed masculine. I ignored her and left the area. If you are deemed a threat or somebody they know they could never control, they will target you. It makes them feel empowered. These power hungry people are sick and need help.
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All the wealthy well educated young white people I'm meeting are getting it these past few weeks. There must not be any shortage, that or not enough people want it. Granted a substantial portion of the population including some racial ethnic groups and older boomers will say no. With things unfolding the way that they are, I gotta wonder how viable these lockdowns and continued restrictions and mask requirements, as well as closed borders (canada for example, unable to go on vacation up there for the past fucking year) will be going forward.

Some people were so overeager they took the RNA ones over the more conventional J&J one. Not a second thought given. Two fucking times today I've heard young people who are healthy and using that to say they can shake hands or not wear a mask. LOL. As someone else said, it is a form of virtue signalling.

I mean I get operant conditioning, and I don't fault normies for being normies, but this is classic conditioning. The vaccine is put forward as a panacea for everything now, but really our current situation is the result of harsh, unsustainable measures that by fiat closed everything down and put people in a heightened state of panic. Why the fuck does anyone need a fucking Krispy Kreme donut for getting a vaccine...?
A peasant is given a choice by a benevolent witch: 'I will do to you whatever you wish, but I warn you, I will do it to your neighbor twice'

The peasant, with a cunning smile, tells her, ‘Take one of my eyes!’

Slovene Proverb
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