Poll: Will you take the vaccine?
You do not have permission to vote in this poll.
Yes
41.89%
31 41.89%
No
58.11%
43 58.11%
Total 74 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

Will you take the vaccine?
#61
I refuse to answer a poll/vote that does not have an "other" or "E" option -- with a write in "essay" answer.

I am quite adamant about this.

Like here:

Adam and the Ants: Stand and Deliver
Reply
#62
(01-08-2021, 03:26 AM)Ohionukes Wrote: Got the second Pfizer vaccine shot today. Just wish I could use it to travel freely now - hopefully in 4-6 months.

How did you get it? It seems here in the US you need to be 65+ in age and still long lines.
Reply
#63
(01-09-2021, 07:28 PM)Stretch Wrote:
(01-08-2021, 03:26 AM)Ohionukes Wrote: Got the second Pfizer vaccine shot today. Just wish I could use it to travel freely now - hopefully in 4-6 months.

How did you get it? It seems here in the US you need to be 65+ in age and still long lines.

Total guess, but he might be a medical professional or other worker frontline to the virus.
If you haven't met anyone, I'll assume you're lying (h/t to Teedub from the old forum)
Reply
#64
Medical professional
Reply
#65
While I do wear my mask everywhere I go, I am wary of the vaccine until we have a longer time to see if any side effects appear from it. I am not 100% against it, but I am not jumping to be first in line either.
Reply
#66
Odd poll result for a travel based forum...

Do the anti-vaxers planning on waiting it out another 12,24,36, months? Or would you get fake documentation (assuming it's required for intentional travel)?


Also, quietly, I think a few of the posts that are essentially - get Covid - are pretty dangerous.
Obviously people of this view are not going to be convinced otherwise on the internet, and it's natural to have doubt about any medicine.
But please bring it up with a/your Doc, there is a significant minority of younger people that suffer ongoing affects, it's not a binary dead/fine outcome.
Reply
#67
(01-12-2021, 03:53 AM)Crisp Wrote: Odd poll result for a travel based forum...

Do the anti-vaxers planning on waiting it out another 12,24,36, months? Or would you get fake documentation (assuming it's required for intentional travel)?


Also, quietly, I think a few of the posts that are essentially - get Covid - are pretty dangerous.
Obviously people of this view are not going to be convinced otherwise on the internet, and it's natural to have doubt about any medicine.
But please bring it up with a/your Doc, there is a significant minority of younger people that suffer ongoing affects, it's not a binary dead/fine outcome.

Because some people don't want to take a vaccine thats been brought to market in less than a year with no long term testing for something with a 99.9% survival rate for a lot of people.

Some people also see it as quite suspicious how they've been told the only way they can have their lives back is via a vaccine yet no increase in mortality all year in most places, new strange ways of suddenly counting deaths and mountains of other evidence to suggest this just isn't that dangerous for the vast majority of people. Anecdotal accounts of a friends dad dying from it don't count as evidence either.

It doesn't mean said people are saying no vaccines have ever worked or they're 'anti-vaxx'. The whole narrative is incredibly suspect to say the least.
Reply
#68
Sorry Bro but don't see how not being vaccinated because you're worried about unknown effects and that you're suspicious of the whole narrative is anything other than 'anti-vaxx'.

Anyway, agree re anecdotal evidence being irrelevant. As said, everyone should discuss and decide with trusted medical professionals if they can.

And to avoid arguing over what seems like fundamental different world views; if you're not getting the Jab, do you plan on faking it or sitting it out? (genuinely interested in this)
Reply
#69
No country anywhere in the world requires a vaccination to enter currently. And its unlikely any will, because vaccinations are already rolling out and theres no unified global system to track them. How is an immigration officer in Thailand going to know if someones vaccination claim from France is legit or not?

Every country around the world has an entirely different program, and not only that but in most countries all you get is a little page saying you've been vaccinated, that most people will lose, or thats easily recreated/faked.

Even with the current negative PCR test within 72 hours system a lot of countries have a lot of people I know just did one test months ago and are now photoshopping their results for every trip to change the date. For much the same reason - immigration have no way of knowing whats legit or not.
Reply
#70
(01-12-2021, 12:41 PM)zatara Wrote: No country anywhere in the world requires a vaccination to enter currently. And its unlikely any will, because vaccinations are already rolling out and theres no unified global system to track them. How is an immigration officer in Thailand going to know if someones vaccination claim from France is legit or not?

Every country around the world has an entirely different program, and not only that but in most countries all you get is a little page saying you've been vaccinated, that most people will lose, or thats easily recreated/faked.

Even with the current negative PCR test within 72 hours system a lot of countries have a lot of people I know just did one test months ago and are now photoshopping their results for every trip to change the date. For much the same reason - immigration have no way of knowing whats legit or not.

For the last 70 years or so, countries have required vaccination certificates within WHO booklets.  I got my first one at age 12, required smallpox vaccine to go to Europe.  Since then, I've had to present Yellow Fever vaccine certificates in different countries.

It's possible or even likely this will be used again.  Usually the old "rubber stamp" seal of a medical facility was used.  You could try to get a certificate from someone, and then forge a hand annotation to the certificate.  In the west, you may or my not be able to get a forged rubber stamp made.   It's possible that holographic seals or other hard to forge stickers will be used.
Does trying to forge make sense, rather than just getting the vaccine?

[Image: vaccine_cert.jpg]
Reply
#71
(01-12-2021, 05:06 AM)Crisp Wrote: Sorry Bro but don't see how not being vaccinated because you're worried about unknown effects and that you're suspicious of the whole narrative is anything other than 'anti-vaxx'.

Anyway, agree re anecdotal evidence being irrelevant. As said, everyone should discuss and decide with trusted medical professionals if they can.

And to avoid arguing over what seems like fundamental different world views; if you're not getting the Jab, do you plan on faking it or sitting it out? (genuinely interested in this)

I already wrote why I'm not getting it, there is just no need to put my current or future health at risk like that. I am hardly ever sick with anything even mild colds. Governments gave the vaccines emergency approval, the actual trials are still ongoing.

If its needed for travel I don't think its hard to imagine it being needed for attending events or any kind of social public gatherings and later even just going to the supermarket. They've already got people needing to scan QR codes to enter stores in some Asian countries. 

I think theres allot of people willing to fight this if they try to take it that far as to mandating it for doing anything, a lot of folks have put the mask on, gone along with the charade at times but many will draw the line at having some experimental vaccine injected into their bodies. As seen also by the poll results in this thread.

Forging proof for travel would be an option but we'll just have to see if that actually happens and how far they will try to take it. 

Sometimes in life you have to fight for your rights when you fundamentally believe something is wrong, history is full of such examples.
Reply
#72
(01-12-2021, 01:04 PM)OldSojer Wrote: For the last 70 years or so, countries have required vaccination certificates within WHO booklets.  I got my first one at age 12, required smallpox vaccine to go to Europe.  Since then, I've had to present Yellow Fever vaccine certificates in different countries.

/snip

I have one of those myself for yellow fever too. Its not remotely hard to forge - its just printed paper. My "stamp" was just my doctor's signature. Plenty of people will happily spend 20 minutes forging it rather than getting a vaccine they don't need (if they've already had covid) or that they're against for whatever other reason. Forging things these days is the easiest its ever been.

There could be some global attempt to add something higher tech to prevent forgery, but if they didn't for yellow fever or any other disease to date then I doubt they will for covid. And I would also be heavily skeptical that any global standard for something similar for covid will be agreed upon, and implemented, in a reasonable time frame. Those sorts of international agreement take years to achieve.

Even right now - there are vaccines that are approved in some countries but not others. So even aside from the above practical verification problems, there are huge political ones. Would the EU grant entry to people from the UAE or China who've received the Sinopharm vaccine, when the EU hasn't approved its use as a vaccine? And if they don't, would the UAE or China refuse reciprocal recognition of those who've received EU vaccines not used in China? etc
Reply
#73
(01-12-2021, 02:09 PM)zatara Wrote: Even right now - there are vaccines that are approved in some countries but not others. So even aside from the above practical verification problems, there are huge political ones. Would the EU grant entry to people from the UAE or China who've received the Sinopharm vaccine, when the EU hasn't approved its use as a vaccine? And if they don't, would the UAE or China refuse reciprocal recognition of those who've received EU vaccines not used in China? etc

It all seems like massive speculation at this point. I mean the general direction they want to go into is clear, that they want you to be vaccinated. But there are so many ifs and buts that will have to be concretised at the moment. Protocols will have to be developed for different kinds of travel, there is not one-size-fits-all. The "what" and "when" are issues for example. As to the former, there are loads of vaccines coming out including based on more orthodox technology for people who have concerns about mRNA technology. I would also not be surprised if drugs and treatments that help against the worst symptoms become available besides vaccines.

The "when" is already a big question too, just look at how slowly it's going in European countries. With the exception of Israel and maybe the UK and US, it's likely that many people will not be able to get a vaccine until halfway or even well after summer because they're not on the list of old and vulnerable people. And that's assuming there won't be any snags or delays. Then would they say that only old people can travel abroad this summer while young people will just have to stay at home until 2022? I doubt this would be acceptable, especially if the vaccination of these old people already ends most of the health emergency.

Take with a grain of salt but Michael O'Leary from Ryanair is agitating against any restrictions on movement once "all of the high-risk groups, the elderly, the nursing homes and the NHS" have been vaccinated: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...apsed.html

I'd rather not go on one of his flying sardine tins these days, but the fact is that they transport large masses of people on short-haul holiday flights in Europe, just like many other airlines in Europe and North America do I'm sure. Many of their customers will not yet be vaccinated before summer. Most of them will be raring to go and they will not be able to get enough bums on seats if only the old, vaccinated people can fly, or if every teenager needs to get a negative PCR test just to be able party in Greece for a week. Which is why some of these companies have advocated more rapid tests (which have their own problems with reliability) over mandatory vaccines and pre-flight PCR tests.

Of course this guy is just trying to stick up for his own business and not making public health decisions. It's beyond his control, and he may not have a choice if most of his destinations demand PCR tests and/or vaccines even after most of the vulnerable are protected from symptoms. But at some point something's got to crack, otherwise you're just grounding a whole bunch of planes, losing a lot of business, and paying a load of helicopter money to the flight and ground staff, just to "protect" people who largely can't actually get sick because they're either old and vaccinated or young and healthy.
Reply
#74
Tourism is a huge industry in many countries, and business travel also brings in a lot of revenues. If some countries make it easy for people to travel there, then businesses in competing countries where it's more strict will pressure their governments to ease up.

My guess is countries will require either a recent negative test result or proof of vaccination in order to enter. Yes, I know most places are just handing out a tattered piece of paper that you can easily forge, but the record of the vaccination is also stored in the database of your health department. Organizations like IATA are working on a digital travel vaccination pass, so I suspect something like that will be implemented soon, and there will be some way to authorize the health department to release that data to IATA or a similar organization.

We may also see vaccine tourism or other attempts to make traveling to a country easier, especially for countries highly dependent on tourism. Maybe they will offer vaccination upon arrival along with testing (since the vaccination takes a while to start working), and they'll have some special deal like it's free if you book at least 5 nights in a hotel or something like that.

There's a lot of countries and industries devastated by the travel shutdown, so I'm sure we'll see some very creative ways to revive that industry.
Reply
#75
Using blockchain technology it would be rather easy to create a worldwide proof of vaccination system.

I say this without attaching any personal opinions to it as to whether this should happen or not, and definitely am not interested in participating in politics or conspiracy theory nonsense.

Just saying that it would be a lot easier to implement than some of you are saying, purely from a technological point of view. As some people pointed out though, it would be up to governments and health organizations to come to an agreement on it and that's why it probably won't happen. But the technology is there.
Reply
#76
I agree that they likely have the technology to implement it ^

I think now people have to be more careful what they label as 'conspiracy theories'. Many things that were originally said to be such seem to be happening more and more.

Related - UK to trial vaccine passports which will be linked to facial recognition:


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...trial.html
Reply
#77
(01-13-2021, 05:09 AM)WorldConquest Wrote: Tourism is a huge industry in many countries, and business travel also brings in a lot of revenues. If some countries make it easy for people to travel there, then businesses in competing countries where it's more strict will pressure their governments to ease up.

My guess is countries will require either a recent negative test result or proof of vaccination in order to enter. Yes, I know most places are just handing out a tattered piece of paper that you can easily forge, but the record of the vaccination is also stored in the database of your health department. Organizations like IATA are working on a digital travel vaccination pass, so I suspect something like that will be implemented soon, and there will be some way to authorize the health department to release that data to IATA or a similar organization.

We may also see vaccine tourism or other attempts to make traveling to a country easier, especially for countries highly dependent on tourism. Maybe they will offer vaccination upon arrival along with testing (since the vaccination takes a while to start working), and they'll have some special deal like it's free if you book at least 5 nights in a hotel or something like that.

There's a lot of countries and industries devastated by the travel shutdown, so I'm sure we'll see some very creative ways to revive that industry.

See Dubai since November.

Their entry requirements have been lax to say the least. I flew in from London; was supposed to have a test on arrival. Nobody cared. No test.

Result: half of the UK has been in Dubai over this winter spending like its 1920.

Ultimately money talks and whilst some countries will commit economic suicide as a sacrifice to the covid religion's gods, others will choose to go the other route.

These vaccination passports will collapse on themselves in a fit of govt incompetence before they even get off the ground. Non starter imho. Just a sign of our hysterical times more than reality.
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)