Poll: What would you prefer
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Mid level + Location independent
82.35%
28 82.35%
Schooling + High salary
14.71%
5 14.71%
Homelessness
2.94%
1 2.94%
Total 34 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

Mid level salary + Travel?
#1
Lots of threads about money and travel lately, so lets take a poll:


Guys,

Would you take a mid-level salary (40K or so) thats location independent

or 

~ half a decade of schooling followed by a six-figure salary in the West?

or

take a chance at building a business while living frugally, abroad or in the west


Opinions, why or why not?
Other options?
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#2
I completed a half decade of schooling before working my way up to a six-figure salary in the East.

A lot of the time in between involved living frugally while building a business, which is how I acquired the skills that led to better career opportunities.
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#3
(11-08-2020, 11:16 AM)Blake2 Wrote: Lots of threads about money and travel lately, so lets take a poll:


Guys,

Would you take a mid-level salary (40K or so) thats location independent

or 

~ half a decade of schooling followed by a six-figure salary in the West?

or

take a chance at building a business while living frugally, abroad or in the west


Opinions, why or why not?
Other options?

Pick the location-independent job. Live frugally in cheaper country while you build your business on the side.

Half a decade of schooling in the west + six-figure salary can turn into life in a hamster wheel very quickly. If you love your life in the west, then by all means go for it.
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#4
By half a decade of schooling I mean thats after a Bachelor's. (Phd/JD/MD/EdD/PsyD/etc)
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#5
As someone who did the second option not knowing the first existed, I voted for the first.

Time is more valuable than money.

Edit: Just remember to save and invest in both cases because that's how real wealth is built. Money gives you options.
If you haven't met anyone, I'll assume you're lying (h/t to Teedub from the old forum)
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#6
(11-08-2020, 04:02 PM)AirWaves Wrote: As someone who did the second option not knowing the first existed, I voted for the first.

Same here, except that I still voted for the second option. I think it's the better option, unless the schooling requires going into debt or one really wants to be a nomad. My own plan is to first gather some investments for safety and then create a working setup where I can spend 3-4 months per year abroad, either by finding a flexible employer or working as a contractor.

This has a couple of benefits, due to traveling being limited to only a couple months per year:
* time spent abroad will be in full holiday mood without financial worries
* travel destinations will keep their novelty
* less worry about visas
* keep one foot in the "easy mode" country with 1st world healthcare, salaries etc
* having a homebase in a western country is a DHV for impoverished 3rd world women
* avoid having to build a homebase in some unstable foreign land, or going full nomad and suffering the feeling of rootlessness

Disadvantages are the difficulty setting up such a flexible employment, and of course the fact that you need to spend most of the time in the west. For me this is bearable, compared to spending all year in the 3rd world with visa hassles, rainy season, xenophobia, rootlessness, noise, pollution etc. If I do find a paradise where none of this seems to bother, I can always pursue location independence later.
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#7
Education is broken, especially so in the USA. You'll be stuck with debt after studying for 5 years.
You'd be better off working part-time in Starbucks, invest some money, and learn a useful online skill for the rest of your free time.

40.000$/year is not mid-level outside USA and Canada - so yeah chose that.

The thing I want to say is just be very mindful of your budget.
40.000$/year income - living in Mexico on 15.000$/year = 25.000$ saved a year.

Invest that money in either yourself (digital agency / websites / learn to program) and the financial markets (stocks / ETF's) and you'll be better of in 10 years anyway and having so much more travel / life experience.

If you already have a degree, and are able to earn 6-figures fast in the USA, I would do that for a couple of years if you can save at least 30-40% of your salary.
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#8
Earn money as early as possible, set yourself up to the point at which you're comfortable then cash in and live a minimal lifestyle forever.
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#9
Oh.  Do we have polls here now?  

Why not

E) High Level Salary (or well-endowed Trust Fund) + Travel

Would that be too obvious for SWT economics? ; - )
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#10
I'd just like to point out this poll is skewed and reflects the target demographic of Swoop at a point in time.

The 1st option looks great for a single younger guy which is most of the people here.

If/When you want to start a family, the 2nd option starts looking a lot better.
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#11
(11-08-2020, 10:32 PM)Helikron Wrote: Why not

E) High Level Salary (or well-endowed Trust Fund) + Travel

Would that be too obvious for SWT economics? ; - )

Well, for the 5+ years you are doing a Phd/JD/MD/EdD/PsyD/etc 
you won't have time or money to travel. Yes,  you can travel after of course.

My buddy doing a PhD in compsci is in his room 24/7 as are other acquaintances doing terminal degrees.

It would be great if there were degrees you could do online, but only a handful of options there.
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#12
Neither, best option is to take a valuable job in a growing field in a big city. Work 3-4 years in it and you'll be able to do whatever you want, can stay for more $ or quit and travel wherever you want while working remotely.
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#13
(11-08-2020, 10:56 PM)TurkishCoffee Wrote: I'd just like to point out this poll is skewed and reflects the target demographic of Swoop at a point in time.

The 1st option looks great for a single younger guy which is most of the people here.

If/When you want to start a family, the 2nd option starts looking a lot better.

Assuming one had a wife that can work a decent job, thats another 40k. So altogether 80k+ starting out. Enough to raise a family. 

But here is an idea I like better

Join the air force at 17. Get a valuable technical MOS. During these 4 years, learn to code or some other skill that will allow you to make money online.

Live frugally. Save every penny. After 4 years at age 21 take a take some time to travel and work abroad. 

After 5 years of living the swoop lifestyle around Latin America, Europe, and Asia return back to the US. 

Use your GI bill and attend Uni for free. Do AirForce ROTC and graduate and become an officer. 

Enjoy a cushy well paying career (when you factor in benefits) and retire in 20 years at age 50. Make smart investments. 

Then enjoy the next 30 years in leisure with the fam and grandkids.
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#14
(11-08-2020, 04:00 PM)Blake2 Wrote: By half a decade of schooling I mean thats after a Bachelor's. (Phd/JD/MD/EdD/PsyD/etc)

What's the point of that? you can earn a six-figure salary without doing half a decade of school in addition to your bachelors. You probably won't earn that right out of the gate, but rather than earning nothing and running up debt for 5 years, you could be working instead, making money and get to six figures in about five years (which is totally achievable if you have what it takes to complete an MD or PhD).
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#15
(11-08-2020, 05:50 PM)Apoc Wrote:
(11-08-2020, 04:02 PM)AirWaves Wrote: As someone who did the second option not knowing the first existed, I voted for the first.

Same here, except that I still voted for the second option. I think it's the better option, unless the schooling requires going into debt or one really wants to be a nomad. My own plan is to first gather some investments for safety and then create a working setup where I can spend 3-4 months per year abroad, either by finding a flexible employer or working as a contractor.

This has a couple of benefits, due to traveling being limited to only a couple months per year:
* time spent abroad will be in full holiday mood without financial worries
* travel destinations will keep their novelty
* less worry about visas
* keep one foot in the "easy mode" country with 1st world healthcare, salaries etc
* having a homebase in a western country is a DHV for impoverished 3rd world women
* avoid having to build a homebase in some unstable foreign land, or going full nomad and suffering the feeling of rootlessness

Disadvantages are the difficulty setting up such a flexible employment, and of course the fact that you need to spend most of the time in the west. For me this is bearable, compared to spending all year in the 3rd world with visa hassles, rainy season, xenophobia, rootlessness, noise, pollution etc. If I do find a paradise where none of this seems to bother, I can always pursue location independence later.

I did this, I can be abroad very easily about 6 months a year, 3 months at a time, with no issues.  If I spend more than 3 months abroad at a time, then my investments in the USA slowly start deteriorating, but they still run positive.  I'm sitting here in the West right now, thinking of how vastly better and more interesting my life abroad is.  But yes, the air here is cleaner, and I'm more comfortable in almost every way, and I don't have visa hassles.

But here I have to own a car, and I hate having to own a car. I prefer dense areas abroad with metro rail where you can walk everywhere.

And in the USA every day is a repeat of the last. 

The main thing though is that in the West my social status is lower than what it is abroad.  And that has all kinds of implications for one's life and social life. Let's say in the West you're in the top 20% in income or so, that puts you in the top 1% or so abroad.  The difference in social status between someone that's in the top 20% of their society and someone that's in the top 1% in their society is nuts.  It's nuts.  Top 1% means dates with beauties virtually at will, apartments with amazing vistas of the city from the highest floors, armed security, etc.

So in the end it's a question of whether you want to live life as a top 20%'er or as a top 1%'er, with all the perks that come with it.  That said, being a top 20%'er in the West comes with a lot of material comforts.  You will be comfortable.

At the end of the day, I prefer being uncomfortable in some ways, but having a higher social status, than being super comfortable, but having a lower social status. Once you have a family, that can change, you might prefer the comforts of the West at that point. Or you could stay abroad and have your kids grow up as top 1%'ers abroad, having the kind of upbringing you did not. It's a possibility.

Regardless, the next step, I'm thinking, is to learn some kind of remote trade that I can level up at, so I can be making so much money that even if my investments in the USA deteriorate a bit at times, I won't mind and can keep enjoying life abroad for longer periods.  Could be web development, writing, running an online business, etc.  It just has to be something that I actually enjoy doing, and that, when I leave a position, I can find a new one easily and for more pay, instead of being back to square one every time you leave a job.  Or I could say whatever, and just land some random remote tech support job and damn the consequences years down the line when the job ends and I'm back to square one.  Not a wise move, but it's an option.

The other option, at some point in a decade or so when the investments have doubled in value, is to cash out, put everything in a fund, and live off the dividends, worry-free, abroad.

But the main focus for now, I'm thinking...should be on learning a remote skillset that can yield $40k, $80k, $120k while allowing me to work perhaps 20 hours a week or less, so I can enjoy the beach.  And that income would all be on top of investments, so it would be pretty damn nice...just gotta get really good at something that's remote and that I can enjoy.

Lots to think about.
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#16
(11-14-2020, 01:35 AM)Suits Wrote:
(11-08-2020, 04:00 PM)Blake2 Wrote: By half a decade of schooling I mean thats after a Bachelor's. (Phd/JD/MD/EdD/PsyD/etc)

What's the point of that? you can earn a six-figure salary without doing half a decade of school in addition to your bachelors. You probably won't earn that right out of the gate, but rather than earning nothing and running up debt for 5 years, you could be working instead, making money and get to six figures in about five years (which is totally achievable if you have what it takes to complete an MD or PhD).


I know someone who spent a decade in the corporate world and he still hasn't cracked six figures.  He's going back to grad school to get a Master's. Things are very competitive, although it certainly depends on the field.

On the other hand, it might be possible to set up a more modest income that would still be worth it and travel.

Although, if you really want to make money without so much school you could go into oil and gas, become an experienced welder. Definitely money to be made in some pretty remote places, off shore oil rigs, etc.
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#17
(11-14-2020, 03:21 PM)Blake2 Wrote:
(11-14-2020, 01:35 AM)Suits Wrote:
(11-08-2020, 04:00 PM)Blake2 Wrote: By half a decade of schooling I mean thats after a Bachelor's. (Phd/JD/MD/EdD/PsyD/etc)

What's the point of that? you can earn a six-figure salary without doing half a decade of school in addition to your bachelors. You probably won't earn that right out of the gate, but rather than earning nothing and running up debt for 5 years, you could be working instead, making money and get to six figures in about five years (which is totally achievable if you have what it takes to complete an MD or PhD).


I know someone who spent a decade in the corporate world and he still hasn't cracked six figures.  He's going back to grad school to get a Master's. Things are very competitive, although it certainly depends on the field.

On the other hand,  it might be possible to set up a more modest income that would still be worth it and travel.

Although,  if you really want to make money without so much school you could go into oil and gas,  become an experienced welder.  Definitely money to be made in some pretty remote places,  off shore oil rigs,  etc.

Having an MA or PhD doesn't guarantee six figures. In fact, the average person with advanced degrees doesn't earn six figures.

https://smartschoolsusa.org/blog/the-ave...-2019-2020 (Bureau of Labor Statistics)

Doctorate: $90,636
Masters: $72,852
Bachelors: $60,996

Not cracking six figures is perfectly normal.
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#18
Agreed, it's not uncommon. But, if trying to live in the West, making 6 figures would definitely be the goal. With the opportunity to travel, not making so much money is worth it.
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#19
As long as you're not being a company man you should be able to advance in income pretty fast.

I know a handful of people who started out at a large company when they graduated and are still there. Maybe at first there was good advancement from the absolute bottom to a rung or two up the ladder. After that, some mid level manager is promising them X thing at Y time just to keep them on the hook. Y time seems to be perpetually delayed and never comes, but you stay on the hook and think you're making a sacrifice for the future.

Personally, I don't like putting all my hopes on something that might be happening two or three years from now.

Unless you're in a field like engineering/medicine or such, the best route to six figures is to aggressively pursue salary increases early on in your career. Job hopping looks bad later on but you can weather it when you're starting out, and in my opinion it doesn't count as a negative if you've got forward motion. Doing this while working at growing organisations can be a huge accelerator, the growth of your employer can trickle down to you if you play your cards right.
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