People who earn a big salary (over $150k), what do you do?
#21
As an aside, keep in mind that using specific numbers like "$150k" can actually be another form of limiting beliefs. When you speak like this you're:

A) Using this as a benchmark where you set yourself up to focus on the number rather than your possible potential
B) "Outing" yourself to the truly wealthy people as someone who thinks on a small scale
C) Sending red flags to others that you will potentially obsess about these differences or make it wedge point on how you differentiate between people
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#22
(08-08-2020, 06:21 AM)Dali Wrote: As an investment banker, prepare to be on call for 18 hours per day and occasionally pull 36+ hour "shifts". If you hop to the hedge fund side, the hours might get better, but if a company you've pitched to your boss suddenly puts up an awful quarter, you'll be waking up sweating for the next month. (I could probably make a separate thread about finance war stories haha)

Interesting I'm repping you too. How do you even get a job like this? Wtf do you do exactly for 36 hours sttaight? I would def like to see a thread from you too.
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#23
(08-08-2020, 04:49 PM)bootknocker Wrote:
(08-08-2020, 06:21 AM)Dali Wrote: As an investment banker, prepare to be on call for 18 hours per day and occasionally pull 36+ hour "shifts". If you hop to the hedge fund side, the hours might get better, but if a company you've pitched to your boss suddenly puts up an awful quarter, you'll be waking up sweating for the next month. (I could probably make a separate thread about finance war stories haha)

Interesting I'm repping you too. How do you even get a job like this? Wtf do you do exactly for 36 hours sttaight? I would def like to see a thread from you too.

Likewise! Would be definitely a cool idea for a separate topic. I studied finance as well but never worked in an investment bank. You gotta have some crazy stories.
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#24
I'm in my late 20's and make 200-500k per year.

I put this range because I work in outside sales for a fairly large tech company. My base salary is 150k, if I hit my target I will make another 150k in commission, 300k OTE (on target earnings.) If I miss my target badly I will get fired and make 200k. If I exceed my target, my commission rate will multiply and put me fairly comfortably in the 400's.

The job itself is not incredibly difficult (30-50 hr weeks, sometimes on client site but mostly remote.) It's difficult and competitive to get these jobs, however.

Most tech companies are looking for successful sales experience with a solid tech company and some form of technical aptitude. You usually need a college degree but the school you attended is not that important unless you are looking to get recruited directly from college.

I already wrote an entire thread on my industry in the lifestyle forum
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#25
(08-08-2020, 04:49 PM)bootknocker Wrote: Interesting I'm repping you too. How do you even get a job like this? Wtf do you do exactly for 36 hours sttaight? I would def like to see a thread from you too.

I worked as an analyst for real estate development + acquisitions over a decade ago starting at about $90K / year. I had several friends working as investment analysts for investment banks and private equity funds. Our work was largely similar, they were earning around $160K after bonus, but my job was relatively relaxed and I wasn't working 80+ hours a week.

Here's how I and others in my peer group did it:

Studied finance or econ, got internships through university networks, got hired by the company where you interned or inteview w/ a company that recruits at the university. We did well at the internships, became highly capable with Excel, and were educated about trends in the industry.

I never had to work 36 hours straight, but I pulled a few all-nighters because there's often eagerness and a sense of urgency to get documents into the hands of prospective investors + capital partners who are keen to invest.

In this process, you're basically doing 2 things

(a) creating spreadsheets + financial models to analyze a company's business growth and capital structure 

(b) making comprehensive pitch decks about a company or deal that will be distributed to these funds/investors who will review the opportunity

These pitch decks provide critical and relevant info on the company's business model + projected financials (from the spreadsheets), macro factors/trends , sector factors/trends, info on competitors, unique opportunities for company growth, and founder + key employee profiles

You will often need to send emails and make phone calls to other analysts, pore over relevant financial statements, public filings, and industry research publications to gather this information.

It's fairly tedious and a lot of grunt work, but a good deal of the info is somewhat technical so you can't be a total idiot. A lot of money is on the line so it requires diligence — maybe not surgeon level diligence or even software developer diligence, but certainly more than Diana in marketing or Becky in H.R.
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#26
This is an interesting thread but as always most replies will be Americans so its not net earnings (in Europe people speak about their salary more as what they receive net) and as mentioned location plays a big role. If you make 150k before taxes in NY it is not that impressive as if you make it in a third world country or in places like Spain, France, EE etc.
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#27
(08-09-2020, 01:18 PM)Rottenapple Wrote: This is an interesting thread but as always most replies will be Americans so its not net earnings (in Europe people speak about their salary more as what they receive net) and as mentioned location plays a big role. If you make 150k before taxes in NY it is not that impressive as if you make it in a third world country or in places like Spain, France, EE etc.

Do they really? I didn't know that.

Here in the Socialist Republic of Great Britain, which is sort of in Europe, we always speak gross...mostly cause the average Brit earns so little and pays so much tax it sounds less depressing.
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#28
(08-10-2020, 12:34 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:
(08-09-2020, 01:18 PM)Rottenapple Wrote: This is an interesting thread but as always most replies will be Americans so its not net earnings (in Europe people speak about their salary more as what they receive net) and as mentioned location plays a big role. If you make 150k before taxes in NY it is not that impressive as if you make it in a third world country or in places like Spain, France, EE etc.

Do they really? I didn't know that.

Here in the Socialist Republic of Great Britain, which is sort of in Europe, we always speak gross...mostly cause the average Brit earns so little and pays so much tax it sounds less depressing.

Interesting to know, I find it very weird people using gross and I imagine it is exactly because of what you mentioned...it sounds better, but in all honestly, no ones gives a fuck about how much money you gave to the state right? Using net would really be much easier especially when mentioning location as well so you can factor in cost of living, health care, education, pensions, etc.

I'm sure a guy making 80k in third world is living way better than a guy making 150k in a big western city.
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#29
I'm not going to go into much detail about myself, but most people in my friends circle are at at least 6 figures a year, and some at 7-figures also. Most people at that level have started a business, because if you manage it well, the profits can be endless.

Compare that to a lawyer. Yes, you can bill at $500-700/hr if you're good, but there's only one of you and only so many hours in the day. Same with surgeons. You can't easily scale that up. I do have a few friends at that level who are in finance (private equity, M&A), but the majority are business owners.

With many businesses, you can scale up by adding more employees. If each of those generates a certain % of their "revenue" to the bottom line, then just scale up to 100 or more employees and you can do really well.

I'd say one thing everyone has in common is they are willing to work hard, and they are go-getters. You gotta have the drive and the will to make it happen.
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#30
I am self employed and work mainly in Europe, When I work I make between 130 and 190kE BEFORE TAX, I couldn’t stress enough the « before tax » as in many european countries you get fucked hard in the ass by the corporate tax, income tax, social contributions etc.

So your retention rate ( what you keep in your pocket once you paid everything) is between 48% (yeah in France you give to the government more than half your earnings, same in Sweden and not far from that in Germany) and 65-75% ( can be reached in some cases in the UK if you find the right balance between salary and dividends, meaning you pay yourself a small salary each year to be under a certain threshold, if you exceed it then it becomes nearly similar to France and Germany).

That’s when I work, as I am self employed my activity depends a lot on the economic context, I often stay unemployed for 5-6 months, problem is you never know in advance how long you gonna be unemployed so it’s difficult to enjoy that free time unless you say « fuck it, I am going to X country for 3 months and will look for a job when I come back ».

This brings quite a lot of uncertainty but overall I’m ok with it, I have 2 Master degrees, speak several languages, am doing reasonably well financially compared to my peers and the most important is I am proud of what I achieved, long studies, proving yourself in a competitive environment, the corporate world is full of spineless people and back stabbers, you need a thick skin to succeed and you learn to become pragmatic and result driven.

So was it worth it? i’d say yes.

Edit: am I happy with my current situation? I’d say I worked enough in my life and am now thinking about an exit plan so I havent reached my final destination yet.
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#31
The situation here in Western Europe is fucked up. To have a company in Belgium for instance you have to pay over 450€ monthly to just have a company (Social contributions are a minimum of 750€ each quarter + bookkeepping costs from around 400€ each quarter), so than you have added costs like food, rent etc. that you have to pay, so then you have already let's say 1600€ fixed cost. Then you need to bring in a lot of money to make a decent living here, and it's fucking expensive to live in.

So I worked for several multinationals here and I can tell you it's indeed full of backstabbing, fake people. If you don't have a fixed-term contract but start on weekly basis contracts, you'll be treated like shit. You only get shit if you work with people here, all the things you will say can be used against you. You need to have a really niche where you are really good in to make it here. It is indeed paradise but for Poorer people who fall back on unemployment benefits. I don't know any people in my country who are making more than 3k€ net a month. If you earn 60 000 € gross, you keep 30 000€ net (35$k) a year and this is what are seen in the top 5% Earners in Europe. Speaking for Netherlands, Belgium area. I haven't figured it out yet how I can make more than 5€k net a month, I've been thinking to register my business somewhere else but I have potential clients here so that could be a dealbreaker. Something scalable is always the option. I know a few Dutch online entrepreneurs who are doing really well though
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#32
(08-11-2020, 12:36 PM)SpursFan741 Wrote: The situation here in Western Europe is fucked up. To have a company in Belgium for instance you have to pay over 450€ monthly to just have a company (Social contributions are a minimum of 750€ each quarter + bookkeepping costs from around 400€ each quarter), so than you have added costs like food, rent etc. that you have to pay, so then you have already let's say 1600€ fixed cost. Then you need to bring in a lot of money to make a decent living here, and it's fucking expensive to live in.

So I worked for several multinationals here and I can tell you it's indeed full of backstabbing, fake people. If you don't have a fixed-term contract but start on weekly basis contracts, you'll be treated like shit. You only get shit if you work with people here, all the things you will say can be used against you. You need to have a really  niche where you are really good in to make it here. It is indeed paradise but for Poorer people who fall back on unemployment benefits. I don't know any people in my country who are making more than 3k€ net a month. If you earn  60 000 € gross, you keep 30 000€ net (35$k) a year and this is what are seen in the top 5% Earners in Europe. Speaking for Netherlands, Belgium area. I haven't figured it out yet how I can make more than 5€k net a month, I've been thinking to register my business somewhere else but I have potential clients here so that could be a dealbreaker. Something scalable is always the option. I know a few Dutch online entrepreneurs who are doing really well though

That's so true. I left Belgium behind for the same reason. I just go back to visit friends/family.
150k a year is nearly impossible here. I guess you need to earn 30.000$ a month before taxes here probably to be at that level net. High earners are taxed over 50% (it's a level system here - but I guess the lowest level is already around 20%, it goes up if you earn more).

It's actually a bit sad. I call it ''monkey country'' (een apenland). We don't have a government for I don't know how long, but taxes are insane. Especially if you want to work as a freelancer or start your own business. A good accountant to find tax loopholes is a necessity in Belgium. But you'll pay for it. And truth be told Belgium isn't that bad if you have a business with a lot of expenses/costs, but as a remote independent business it's hard to create a lot of costs. People go to restaurants here with family, ask for a receipt, and bring it in as a ''business lunch''. Just to get costs at a decent level.

Poor people are spoiled here compared to other countries (not everyone of course and until a certain level). This makes them lazy, and ''taking advantage of the system and social safety net'' can be considered a national sport. I mean I don't blame them. Why would you do a basic job for 1200 euro/month, if you get 1000 euro from the state each month doing nothing? Some of these people even travel to Asia / Latin America while still getting their benefits and finding excuses why they can't work. I even heard people faking a mental illness.

That's why I moved to Prague. They have a very open attitude towards freelancers and it's still Europe, which was important. I can go on 1-hour flights back to Belgium for less than 50$ one way. It's cheaper, and I only pay 15% taxes up to about 8000 euro/month (tax + social security combined). Belgium will lose a lot of intelligent workforce if they keep this up. There's no incentive to live there. The Netherlands is a bit better I heard to set up a business (like for example e-commerce is pretty good there).
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#33
Everything you describe is valid for France. For the NL if you come from abroad it is a bit better as you can benefit from the « 30% ruling » which basically means that if you have high skills in a certain area 30% of your income won’t be taxed. Dutch have been smart and pragmatic enough to apply this rule and attract talent, french are too dumb And dogmatic to do that.

Smart and driven people live the country, meanwhile, « artists » have seen their unemployment benefits extended by 12 months because of the covid.
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#34
Is there a reason you don't incorporate offshore, pay little or no corporate tax, and then you can pay yourself minimum wage from your company, and collect welfare at home?
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#35
This isn't the whinging about taxes thread. If you want to live in a shit hole taxless culture go to USA.
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#36
Here's the thing, If you let's say live abroad and you are a freelancer/ have an online business. You live in Colombia or Thailand and you have those monthly costs from 471$ just to operate with your business, just monthly administration costs for being registered here in Belgium/France. You can live on 1200$ in there + 471$ = 1671$ , and this is monthly. So your monthly costs are 1671$ . If you need cashflow for your business (Amazon FBA, e-commerce, flipping houses etc), that's a pain in the ass too.

If you have a service business like graphic design, marketing agency, and let's say for marketing you charge 1000$ bucks for your clients, let's say you have 5 of them. You make 5000$ - 471$ - 2200$(income tax+ extra social contributions)= 2329$ and still with in your mind that one of your clients can still drop you every month. The solution I guess is saving up and trying to get a passive income and learn high income skills and deregister myself here and looking for a scalable business model which can make 10€k net a month. Even if I would stay here and want ed to be rich in the corporate world, it is nearly impossible, with the insane tax rates.
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#37
(08-11-2020, 02:05 PM)Mister Happy Wrote: Is there a reason you don't incorporate offshore, then you can pay yourself minimum wage from your company, and collect welfare at home?

I haven't really looked into it. Just looked where in Europe was the best setup for me.
Note that the Czech Republic has some kind of Freelancer status (called a ''trade license'').

I can pay taxes under my name since I have 2-3 clients only. It wasn't worth it to set up a business.
I do work about half of the time I worked in Belgium, while earning about 30% more monthly.

To answer your question, Belgium has CFC rules. You can't just setup an offshore solely for tax benefits.

@SpursFan741: Yeah, for me the best way was to have no connection to Belgium. I couldn't just deregister and go live a happy tax free live in Thailand (I've heard Germans can do this, and just give up all their benefits, which is a lot better). Belgium requires you to register somewhere else first and show proof.

EDIT: it's just very unclear in Europe. Best is just pay some money for a tax consultation.
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#38
(08-11-2020, 02:12 PM)churros Wrote: This isn't the whinging about taxes thread. If you want to live in a shit hole taxless culture go to USA.

Ok Mr Churros, then said differently mentioning a salary is worthless without knowing how much taxes you pay, that’s the relevant part with regards to this thread. Otherwise we are sharing experiences and talking about things we know, that’s also the point of such an international forum.
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#39
(08-11-2020, 02:20 PM)Lino Wrote:
(08-11-2020, 02:12 PM)churros Wrote: This isn't the whinging about taxes thread. If you want to live in a shit hole taxless culture go to USA.

Ok Mr Churros, then said differently mentioning a salary is worthless without knowing how much taxes you pay, that’s the relevant part with regards to this thread. Otherwise we are sharing experiences and talking about things we know, that’s also the point of such an international forum.

People who earn a big salary (over $150k), what do you do? = You worry about taxes
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#40
For those Europeans who don't wanna pay too much taxes: do some research what happens if you deregister in your home country and start a corporation in Panama (or any other country with territorial tax law and low taxes).

For Germans, for example, it's pretty simple to live tax-free with an online income as long as you're cool with leaving Germany for good. As soon as you tell the authorities that you're moving abroad, you don't have to pay any taxes or social insurance anymore. I imagine it's similar in other EU countries. I am planning to make this move at the end of this year and then make 100k per year after tax.
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