Insurgent Job Hire Strategies
#1
Currently in the job market.

Wanting to solicit some opinions.

I am not looking to get a job the conventional way. IE gatekeeping, bullshit.

As many of ya'll may or may not know, I moved to Atlanta, Georgia on a whim, after waking up badly hungover and hating Iowa, dropped everything and moved. One of the better decisions I've made (on impulse) given my network here, and the way larger job market. Shit is good here, I am actually challenging myself finally, in a way better job market, have mentors etc, doing an intense IT curriculum, but I am very, I repeat, very new to the job market.

I've never spent more than 2 weeks looking for a job, and so in many ways, have undersold myself.

My days consist of filling out job applications on linkedin, and studying computer programming.

I'm not going to post my resume here... but in the past I've gotten success walking into employers and interviewing on the spot, or getting jobs via cold call.

I have more time to blow this time around. And I am trying to build more of a career. A personal goal for me is to get into IT/ or management, or both.

I don't really have much to lose at the moment, and I can afford to spend some time looking for a better job, or also using higher level strategies to get job offers (what I'm asking for I guess, is unconventional ways to get a job; ie ways that are maybe higher risk/reward, or take more time, research etc.)

Hard to believe I've never played the corporate job "game", but that is a function of being quite young, traveling a lot, and never holding what you would call a "prestige" job for a post-college grad.

I am not sure where to begin, but I suspect maybe I ought to be contacting all my contacts in ATL, and then getting in touch with all their contacts. Or talking to alumni of my university, but I don't know if I'll get any insights from them, much less preference in hiring. I have one "firm" lead. But am very eager to not blow it.

I don't want to end up at the bottom of a pile of resumes, or be gatekept by computer systems that search for keywords.

Any advise would be appreciated. -JL.
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#2
Are you saying that the awesome job you found the alpha way paid poorly? Because if it paid well, why not go with what you know and land an amazing, highly paid sales job the alpha way?
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#3
^^Thank you for another valuable contribution from China.

Since you're asking Suits, and because I'm no longer at risk of doxxing myself here you go buddy:

I moved to Iowa with 200 dollars to my name (in loans) from a millionaire mentor of mine. I had 0 to my name.

I drove around looking for jobs, and no one would hire me. So I just started to walk into places dressed up asking for job opportunities.

I blew an interview at a fish farm, telling them all I knew about marketing, it was only later that I knew that they were interviewing me about assembling fish tanks for USD 14.50 per hour. I told them some good shit about marketing, having learned it the hard way... I told them too much truth.

I walked into a fast food joint right after, pissed-off as fuck. I wasn't expecting a job.

Maybe this goes beyond you, but I was in the middle of nowhere. No job opportunities. Town with less than 1,000 people. I walked in and I was hired immediately. 40k/ yr job. Yes there was an interview but as I've said previously, I blew their shit up.

I've never had the luxury of working in a large american city my whole life, and I've done jobs which I consider to be under me.

So thanks for the concern bro.

And for the record bro, I woke up one morning hungover and decided I was moving to atlanta that week. I did. I had 200usd at the time.

You can ask around if you want about me and my story, but, maybe consider $$$ in bank account is not the way to measure someone's self worth. I guess if I wanted to ball, I could still be back in eastern europe. Or doing some scrub job in a tier one city. That's never been the mission for me.
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#4
(06-29-2020, 10:49 PM)Jerusalem Lothario Wrote: Currently in the job market.

Wanting to solicit some opinions.

I am not looking to get a job the conventional way. IE gatekeeping, bullshit.

As many of ya'll may or may not know, I moved to Atlanta, Georgia on a whim, after waking up badly hungover and hating Iowa, dropped everything and moved. One of the better decisions I've made (on impulse) given my network here, and the way larger job market. Shit is good here, I am actually challenging myself finally, in a way better job market, have mentors etc, doing an intense IT curriculum, but I am very, I repeat, very new to the job market.

I've never spent more than 2 weeks looking for a job, and so in many ways, have undersold myself.

My days consist of filling out job applications on linkedin, and studying computer programming.

I'm not going to post my resume here... but in the past I've gotten success walking into employers and interviewing on the spot, or getting jobs via cold call.

I have more time to blow this time around. And I am trying to build more of a career. A personal goal for me is to get into IT/ or management, or both.

I don't really have much to lose at the moment, and I can afford to spend some time looking for a better job, or also using higher level strategies to get job offers (what I'm asking for I guess, is unconventional ways to get a job; ie ways that are maybe higher risk/reward, or take more time, research etc.)

Hard to believe I've never played the corporate job "game", but that is a function of being quite young, traveling a lot, and never holding what you would call a "prestige" job for a post-college grad.

I am not sure where to begin, but I suspect maybe I ought to be contacting all my contacts in ATL, and then getting in touch with all their contacts. Or talking to alumni of my university, but I don't know if I'll get any insights from them, much less preference in hiring. I have one "firm" lead. But am very eager to not blow it.

I don't want to end up at the bottom of a pile of resumes, or be gatekept by computer systems that search for keywords.

Any advise would be appreciated. -JL.

I just retired (end of 2019) from 21+ years in IT.  Here are a couple of suggestions: 

1) Contact temp-to-perm tech firms in Atlanta directly via LinkedIn.  Here in DC temp firms like Apex and TEKsystems are always hiring but I did system administration\engineering (before moving into project management) and those job opportunities are plentiful. 

2) I assume that you are able to showcase in your LinkedIn profile coding projects that you have done.  You will get quizzed during a tech interview.  You could always find a spot in the trenches doing Tier 1/2 work and then move up to cybersecurity, application development or engineering when a spot opens up at your current employer. Relevant certifications will open the door for sure; even for someone new to the field.

3) If you complete a CS degree, employers will be waiting at graduation.
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#5
OP,

Don't mind Suits. His esl recruiter gig has made him all uppity and pretentious lately.

I hated every job I ever had. But the best/highest paying ones were from walk ins. Best way to put a face to an app, and shows more balls and gumption than most most millenials have.

Unrelated but are you Dragan?
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#6
Man OP, should've picked a better city than Atlanta to move to lol. I am joking lol, anyways, here is what I would recommend.

Yeah dude.....no one really walks up to employers and interviews on the spot anymore, that shit is weird. The entire job market has moved to LinkedIn outside of a handful of highly specialized industries where you get in due to elite connections and education. Plus, the market is really fucking tough right now, like really tough.


So here is your gameplan:

1. Sit down and be real with yourself, what skills have you accumulated over the years that would make you a quality hire? Look at all of the jobs you have done up until this point, what expertise have you accumulated? Paint a picture of your work history and be ready to spit it out in 30 seconds.

2. Beef the fuck out of that LinkedIn profile, I mean have top notch profile pic, catchy headline, ideally close to a 1000 connections, and it should all tell a story of what you have done. If any past colleagues or bosses can vouch for you, have the recommendation section ready to go asap. If any past friends or colleagues want to endorse you, make sure they do so. It should yell that you are someone who "gets it" and is in touch with the modern times. 

3. Find the jobs that interest you and companies you like, do research on something catchy they have made news for in recent years, and make a video. There are plenty of apps online for chrome you can research, be ready to make a 30 second video and speak with charisma. I say make a list of at least 10.

4. Remember, be succinct and to the point, hiring managers do not have a lot of time. TBH, most are probably stressing their asses off at their own job security. Get a short message in front of them that will catch their attention, I recommend using the title being something you found about the company in the news and where you will figure in.

5. Find relevant certifications and earn them, be ready to put them up on your profile so recruiters can find you.

To be frankly honest with you though OP....

It is not gonna fix itself overnight. Maybe get some part time gigs or contract hires but you really need to ask the tough uncomfortable questions of what the fuck you did with your life in the past few years to land where you are at. Not just for negativity but for number 1, see what you bring to the table. People are starving man and the economy is way too unstable, we are in scary times. The kids who actually did everything right and accumulated the right kind of work experience for years are having sleepless nights, it is that bad.

So you better do some serious soul searching brother and see what you learned in those years of doing whatever you were doing. If you do not bring anything relevant or worthwhile to the table, even the most creative strategy is not saving you.
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#7
^^ I am fine man.

I was taught by mentors to be aggressive as fuck and to be unapologetic about it. It has worked for me really well. Am I supposed to follow rules?

1. good. cool. makes sense.

2. Agree. I can get some endorsements. My profile is "pretty" good.

3. Ok, so now you're telling me something that is "insurgent". I wouldn't have an issue doing that. So, you're saying it works?

4. So you're suggesting something contextually relevant to them? I.e. i know your problem here it is, here is how I fix it?

5. I've heard from others on and off forums that certs are generally bs for comp sci shit.

--I'm not worried or anything like that I have plenty of time and the bad job market isn't horribly impacting me.

I am done with part time I have done that.

What have I done? Traveled the world, learned multiple languages and learned the fucking lay of the land.

I can always land back on restaurant management or sales.

I never did anything right.

I've actually starved before so i'm not too worried about the downturn. I got hardened during my own "hard times".
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#8
(06-30-2020, 01:23 AM)Jerusalem Lothario Wrote: Maybe this goes beyond you, but I was in the middle of nowhere. No job opportunities. Town with less than 1,000 people. I walked in and I was hired immediately. 40k/ yr job. Yes there was an interview but as I've said previously, I blew their shit up.

And for the record bro, I woke up one morning hungover and decided I was moving to atlanta that week. I did. I had 200usd at the time.

If you’re surprised about catching some flack for starting a threat asking for career advice a very short time after smugly posting a “data sheet” about how to get hired “the alpha way” for what turned out to be a rather poorly paying job, your self-awareness is at a level where I doubt you’ll be much use to any employer unless you magically learn some extremely competitive skills.

The best thing you could do for your career prospects is develop some humility.

The reason I earn six figures as a product developer now is because after I wrecked an otherwise very ideal career opportunity in just six months by being overconfident, I did exactly that.

I would absolutely prefer to be positive and encouraging, but your posting history has made it clear that doing that would be a huge waste of time.
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#9
(06-30-2020, 02:46 AM)Suits Wrote:
(06-30-2020, 01:23 AM)Jerusalem Lothario Wrote: Maybe this goes beyond you, but I was in the middle of nowhere. No job opportunities. Town with less than 1,000 people. I walked in and I was hired immediately. 40k/ yr job. Yes there was an interview but as I've said previously, I blew their shit up.

And for the record bro, I woke up one morning hungover and decided I was moving to atlanta that week. I did. I had 200usd at the time.

If you’re surprised about catching some flack for starting a threat asking for career advice a very short time after smugly posting a “data sheet” about how to get hired “the alpha way” for what turned out to be a rather poorly paying job, your self-awareness is at a level where I doubt you’ll be much use to any employer unless you magically learn some extremely competitive skills.

The best thing you could do for your career prospects is develop some humility.

The reason I earn six figures as a product developer now is because after I wrecked an otherwise very ideal career opportunity in just six months by being overconfident, I did exactly that.

I would absolutely prefer to be positive and encouraging, but your posting history has made it clear that doing that would be a huge waste of time.

For the record I haven't hidden anything. I told you exactly what happened to me showing up in Iowa in the middle of nowhere with 200 bucks. If I did not have those sales skills I would have had no job at that point.

Let's level here: a bunch of guys told me to get out of Iowa (I'm not going to share their handles publicly but take my word when I say several guys that I know told me to get out of iowa). So I did. I listened.

I find that it is extremely rare to get hired on the spot. Doesn't really happen much. But I did.

Find it insincere that you're lecturing me about humility because I moved to Georgia with my last 200usd. Taking risks is putting your ass on the line, and I actually believe it.

I am asking people for their opinions and you're trolling.

I want to be better, you have nothing to add. I actually want a better job.

Ought I be in china?...

My posting history? Cool. Should I link to your datasheet about houseparties, or, one of the other 10,000 comments?
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#10
Hey man, I really do wish you the best and hope you swift progress in finding satisfying and fulfilling employment. I don’t want to side track your thread, since others are offering some good advice that even if you don’t take advantage of it, could be useful to someone else, so I won’t post any further replies in here.

If you’re interested in discussing this further, feel free to PM me. I promise to be polite and helpful.
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#11
(06-30-2020, 12:02 AM)Suits Wrote: Are you saying that the awesome job you found the alpha way paid poorly? Because if it paid well, why not go with what you know and land an amazing, highly paid sales job the alpha way?

Suits...  I really wanna think you are the same dude back in the old days, where we would torture n00bs on "the site that shall not be named," but I really think this guy is justing asking for advice (even though he can't spell the word).  I am biased.  I want to see him succeed, in spite of his best efforts to fail.  No need for what you are doing, unless it's a roundabout "miyagi karate" bullshit thing, which I support 100%.  Dude needs some guidance.  He is asking for guidance.  I don't have the bandwidth in my life to take him under my wings, but he's not a bad guy.  Help him.  You have mad advice.  Don't just shit on him--that's easy.  This dude needs El Mechanico or Papaya Tapper.

Have patience with him,  He's just a Chilly-Pimp, trying to come up in the game.  Help him.  He's not disrespectful.
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#12
Is the OP Dragan like many people have mentioned on here?
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#13
(06-30-2020, 03:45 AM)Dulceácido Wrote:
(06-30-2020, 12:02 AM)Suits Wrote: Are you saying that the awesome job you found the alpha way paid poorly? Because if it paid well, why not go with what you know and land an amazing, highly paid sales job the alpha way?

Suits...  I really wanna think you are the same dude back in the old days, where we would torture n00bs on "the site that shall not be named," but I really think this guy is justing asking for advice (even though he can't spell the word).  I am biased.  I want to see him succeed, in spite of his best efforts to fail.  No need for what you are doing, unless it's a roundabout "miyagi karate" bullshit thing, which I support 100%.  Dude needs some guidance.  He is asking for guidance.  I don't have the bandwidth in my life to take him under my wings, but he's not a bad guy.  Help him.  You have mad advice.  Don't just shit on him--that's easy.  This dude needs El Mechanico or Papaya Tapper.

Have patience with him,  He's just a Chilly-Pimp, trying to come up in the game.  Help him.  He's not disrespectful.

This happened to me. I was too stupid to know how to mop a restaurant floor. I was so clueless. Luckily my restaurant mentor realized it was just a function of me being young and stupid, and he realized I was able to learn, just that I didn't know at the time.

In that instance, he called it a "miyagi moment" and said it would be like the "karate kid", "wax on, wax off". It was one of the more informative experiences of my life, and despite the fact that I've moved on since then, we're still good friends.

For me, it was very humbling. But if not for some guy that knew way more than me, who could eviscerate me with criticism he took the view that that was much for me to learn. It paid off.

I send the guy christmas cards now, and consider it an honor to have worked under him.

Hard to put in words, but that was what I needed at the time.

I just hope others cross paths with guys like this.

Someone willing to stake their legacy on a stupid young guy with an ego and a desire to prove himself.

At some point I hope to repay the favor.

I'll never forget the time I was in a backwater town in Missouri and some random strangers took me under their wings and showed me how to be better, despite knowing nothing about me.

It was a lot to handle and all I could do on breaks was to silently consider how blessed I had been, by some unspoken force, to work with these individuals. It was very taxing emotionally, and in all this I better was able to understand the human condition and feel empathy. I realized how taxing it can be to be in charge of others.... Granted, people in restaurants can be very callous but these people opened completely up to me.

The struggles of a manager separated from his son via a nasty divorce (separated by 8 hrs of driving), a line cook who had to take time off because his son had a rare infant illness and was precariously ill, a 70 year old part time woman working two jobs to keep her family together, and several other misfits just looking to belong to something so they could keep themselves sane...
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#14
(06-30-2020, 03:45 AM)Dulceácido Wrote:
(06-30-2020, 12:02 AM)Suits Wrote: Are you saying that the awesome job you found the alpha way paid poorly? Because if it paid well, why not go with what you know and land an amazing, highly paid sales job the alpha way?

Suits...  I really wanna think you are the same dude back in the old days, where we would torture n00bs on "the site that shall not be named," but I really think this guy is justing asking for advice (even though he can't spell the word).  I am biased.  I want to see him succeed, in spite of his best efforts to fail.  No need for what you are doing, unless it's a roundabout "miyagi karate" bullshit thing, which I support 100%.  Dude needs some guidance.  He is asking for guidance.  I don't have the bandwidth in my life to take him under my wings, but he's not a bad guy.  Help him.  You have mad advice.  Don't just shit on him--that's easy.  This dude needs El Mechanico or Papaya Tapper.

Have patience with him,  He's just a Chilly-Pimp, trying to come up in the game.  Help him.  He's not disrespectful.

You have a point but Suits is right to shit on OP for previously giving retarded job search advice (which Suits linked to) and now asking for advice for himself when he seems barely employable.

...

OP, I used to work as a dev a few years ago.

Learn programming fundamentals, learn git, learn a tech stack that people seem to be hiring for, build shit, make yourself useful, and make yourself visible.

You need to be pushing code weekly to a site like github and you should ideally have a portfolio site summarizing and displaying your work. This isn't always necessary but usually helps for the first job because the dev who hires you will likely want to see some of your work.

Get involved by attending the big meetups (like your area's JavasScript, Node or Python group), some of the library meetups (like React or Tensorflow for example), and some of the specialty ones (like web performance, Docker, or AWS devops). These are probably all on zoom calls now, but attend them anyways. Try to get the slide decks if they're willing because then you can review core concepts on your own and keep build a knowledge base.

The specialty meetups are really where a lot of quality pros are because their smaller and the sessions are often specific problem-focused and there's dialogue. Warning: you'll be hopelessly very lost at first, so try to write down words/concepts that are sailing over your head.

Attend hackathons and try to shadow somebody who seems smart and see how they go about setting up and building shit. You can learn a lot of little things: like how they configure their terminal and text editors, what libraries/tech they use, how they organize and work through problems, and how they read and navigate through documentation of libraries and APIs they're using. (Still, there's no substitute for professional experience that comes with maintaining an existing enterprise codebase.)

It will all seem disorienting at first, but as you learn you'll be able to contextualize more of what you see.

If you have the opportunity to socialize and have beers/pizza make sure to take it, but I recommend being cautious. You're going to be dealing with a lot of autistic nerds and SJW types... Give the impression that you're looking 'to absorb' and you want 'competent guidance and mentorship from those out there actually building shit'.

edit: And since you mentioned the 'insurgent route'...

Once you get to a certain level, I would contact coworking spaces (whenever those come back) and meetup groups to give demo lectures (hour or so).

The learning curve to becoming a decent dev is pretty steep and you're going to be a fucking idiot with all this for the 1st year or so.

It takes awhile to get good enough to where you're not going to be a liability on a team, but if you stick with it, do dozens of tutorials, go to the meetups and keep at it, eventually you'll accumulate enough knowledge to be able to build decent shit, research what you don't know, and ask smarter questions to the pros and get noticed.

Take freelance work as it comes (e.g. setting up and deploying wordpress sites) and interview whenever you get a chance just to get at ease with the process. You won't have to do all this forever because once you have a job and even a year of experience it will be a hell of a lot easier to get the second.

Good luck.

edit: Ovios has good advice for reaching out to recruiters... I also second getting devops certs like AWS along with Docker or Kubernetes. All apps seem to be shipped with at least one of those 3 techs these days. There are sure to be meetups dedicated to all 3 in your locale.
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#15
My apologies Suits... I had not read the post to which you are referring. Having read it... Seems a little misguided.

And "This happened to me. I was too stupid to know how to mop a restaurant floor. I was so clueless. Luckily my restaurant mentor realized it was just a function of me being young and stupid, and he realized I was able to learn, just that I didn't know at the time."

I find it hard to believe someone who writes so succintly couldn't, even if by mere observation, figure how to mop a floor...

JL, Bro, next time you post, review what you are saying, then review it again. Then delete it. Then re-write it and repeat the same process over. When you are absolutely sure what you are writing is not a complete embarrassment, have someone credible look at it and see, not just if it makes logical sense, but that it says what you are intending. I get the feeling this will help out a lot.

Maybe mopping floors is not your calling. My advice: stop wading around in the blue collar service industry job pool and get a more suitable job using your real talents. You are, clearly, an educated person. Stop selling yourself short. Nothing about your "alpha job search" thingy is alpha at all. You thinking someone with a college degree can AMOG a 40-ish year old man who has worked in the service industry his entire life and you've "pulled the wool over his eyes," and landed a job is laughable. And you were fired. So... Yeah.

Also, know your audience. Posting silly shit that sounds like you've done a little research, yet have no experience may work well for people who just happen to stumble upon the forum, but, as I think you have just seen, there are some OG players here who will call you on your bullshit.
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#16
Billydingdong has good advice -- attend all the meetups and hackathons.

Then read the profile of every speaker _and_ attendee. Look at where they work? Is it a startup? Contact the person and ask if they're hiring.

Then, find the local "startup" or "tech" group. Sometimes it's run by the local city business development agency, and sometimes it's just a non-profit. Look at every company listed. Contact them all. But _really_ analyze before you contact. Read their blog posts and on Twitter. Write back to their CEO on Twitter about things. Don't ask for a job right away. Just comment on what they wrote. Build a rapport any way you can. One startup CEO I follow is into a certain hobby so I write back with tips on that hobby.

If you're in IT, and want to be unconventional, startups are the way to go. They often don't post job listings since they're too busy to bother, and don't know what they need. The strategy is often "hire a smart, motivated person and we'll find something for them to do". If they are growing, then there's more than enough to do.
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#17
^^bit of a cross post what I'm about to say.

Someone contacted me other day and said build a personal website. So that is the project today using Wix/ Wordpress, buying domain, then running on an amazon cloud instance.

The meetups is very good idea. I was discussing this with a mentor of mine other day. Sadly they're all virtual rn, but I will be doing some here really soon.

Engaging with people also seems like awesome advice. Seems like a great way to set yourself apart.

Will try that soon as well.

I'll hold out some hope i'm at a startup some day, but I have a lot to do to get there.
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