How far out of step are Swoopers with the rest of society?
#41
(05-15-2020, 02:35 PM)WorldConquest Wrote: Once you've experienced a phase to its fullest, it's time to move on. ... I knew that phase was over when it stopped being fun.

This is one of the hardest things for people to learn about anything, not just swooping.
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#42
(05-15-2020, 02:35 PM)WorldConquest Wrote:
(05-14-2020, 10:30 PM)mike Wrote: I'm a bit torn on the subject. I had a good 5-6 year run where I made internet monies, travelled to a bunch of countries and slept with a lot of women. I have a lot of good memories and cool experiences, but it's lonely. So lonely that I got sick of it. I'm actually envious of guys that are settled down in a city with a girlfriend/wife and a lot of friends. Frankly, it's shitty to always travel around and have to start over so often. It's difficult to maintain meaningful friendships and have a good girlfriend if you're always on the move. Maybe I'm just doing it wrong. Maybe I need to get my T levels checked. Either way, these days I'm more interested in building a consistent life somewhere, rather than putting in work and chasing after meaningless experiences. Nobody cares about all the girls I've banged over the years, and I don't care about most of them either. I don't judge anyone for their choices, but personally I think the swoop lifestyle is all about feeding your ego and is a meaningless pursuit. Perhaps I'm also feeling some scarcity- I'm 32 now (which I still think is pretty young), but finding a good girl in the West gets harder each year. I know that LATAM and SEA will always be there, but I'd rather stay in the US. Let's face it, Colombia is a shit hole other than the fact that the women are incredible. Anyway, I'd recommend everybody try out the swoop lifestyle if you have the opportunity. Some people are better cut out for it than others. If I'm still single by the time I'm in my 40's, I'll certainly move to Colombia for good.

Think of these as phases in your life. Once you've experienced a phase to its fullest, it's time to move on. I was in your position where I traveled a lot and had a roaring singles life with 10+ women in my regular harem rotation. I knew that phase was over when it stopped being fun. I got so good at bedding women that I had it down to a gameplan. First meeting at a specific wine bar after work, then here, then there and she'd be in my bed before the night was over 80% of the time. But it wasn't fun any more. I was going through the motions. I knew it was time for the next stage.

Think about high school and college -- same thing. It was probably great while you were there, then towards the end, you were ready to move on to the next phase.

As for finding a woman to settle down with, in the US, women in particular educated women, tend to focus on their career and get married later. It's much more normal for a lawyer to still be unmarried at age 35 in the US, compared to a waitress. In other countries, average marriage age may be higher or lower, depending on cultural factors. Mormons in the US seem to be an exception, maybe because of the no pre-marital sex thing -- they get married young so they can start banging away. Keep that in mind once you decide on age range you seek out. One thing about American women in their 30s is they are less flaky and more goal-focused, since their biological clock is ticking.

But also be aware of the age thing, if you want to have kids. Look up any statistics on birth defects, and they all skyrocket if the mother gets pregnant at age 40 and up. Dating a 38 year old woman may be risky in that area, as it takes time before you can figure out if she's the one, and by then she'll be even older.

A pregnancy over 35 I believe is classified as "geriatric", somehow i think i know this because of news articles I saw about Meghan Markle's pregnancy. Ha!

Autism, birth defects, Downs syndrome, stillbirth, miscarriages, ect over 35 is no joke in terms of epidemiology.

To say nothing of women's "eggs" at that age, and lack thereof.
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#43
(05-15-2020, 02:15 PM)LeBeau Wrote:
(05-13-2020, 08:52 PM)Mister Happy Wrote:
(05-13-2020, 08:20 PM)SLV Wrote: I've always pondered is if you would let your partner know you enjoy reading forums like Swoop or try and hide it for fear of being judged?

Yep. Whenever I'm tired of her and want to break up, leave the computer on with Swoop page open

I understand this is a lighthearted post about laziness, but this actually creates unneccesary risk for the entire forum membership. 

We've seen people doxxed in the past due to vengeful females finding out about forums. We've also seen members simping for those same females or suggesting they be allowed to post. 

We also don't want to see campaigns for censorship or negative attention from the mainstream media. 

Even innocent girls may end up dragged in the mud if they could be identified from forum stories or pics. 

There's no upside to letting any women know about this place. 

If you're all out of ideas, you could always start with this classic post: http://www.thegmanifesto.com/2009/07/how...girls.html

Think about this in the context of Roosh trolling the entire mainstream media for clicks.
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#44
(05-16-2020, 01:16 AM)churros Wrote:
(05-15-2020, 02:15 PM)LeBeau Wrote:
(05-13-2020, 08:52 PM)Mister Happy Wrote:
(05-13-2020, 08:20 PM)SLV Wrote: I've always pondered is if you would let your partner know you enjoy reading forums like Swoop or try and hide it for fear of being judged?

Yep. Whenever I'm tired of her and want to break up, leave the computer on with Swoop page open

I understand this is a lighthearted post about laziness, but this actually creates unneccesary risk for the entire forum membership. 

We've seen people doxxed in the past due to vengeful females finding out about forums. We've also seen members simping for those same females or suggesting they be allowed to post. 

We also don't want to see campaigns for censorship or negative attention from the mainstream media. 

Even innocent girls may end up dragged in the mud if they could be identified from forum stories or pics. 

There's no upside to letting any women know about this place. 

If you're all out of ideas, you could always start with this classic post: http://www.thegmanifesto.com/2009/07/how...girls.html

Think about this in the context of Roosh trolling the entire mainstream media for clicks.

It's a fucking illuminati-level insurgent-afghani marketing strategy. The guy has marketing chops. But that's "doubling down" in a nutshell.
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#45
Quote:Suppose for example you tell your brother you spent your annual vacation swooping in the Phils.
Then he goes and tells his wife. And she tells your mom, who tells your aunt.
All these females are deathly afraid their husband is going to now go out swooping instead of taking the fam to Disney.
Imagine your dad, uncle, or brother now telling his wife he is going out for a drink with you.
Their ball and chain is going to say you aren't going anywhere with that Dirty Swooper.
And your relative might secretly be jealous and resent you banging sloots in poosy paradise while he is stuck with the ball and chain.
Certainly he doesn't appreciate the scrutiny he faces from his wife since now she suspects he is going to start swooping.
It will be the same at work.

This comment from Mister Happy stuck with me. Swooping is very challenging to people because it subverts the social order.

In some ways it does what MGTOW purports to do, which is to threaten the gender-relations balance. But it's a much more appealing alternative.

You'd think everybody would want to Swoop. And yet it's an extremely niche topic. Even at the other forum, lots of people preferred to spend their time masturbating in the political threads rather than using the travel section. Can you imagine?
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#46
(05-13-2020, 03:08 AM)fullthrottle Wrote: I'm going to take the unpopular opinion because I'm good at that:

In the US, being a "wanderlust" is very fashionable right now, for men and women, especially amongst those with college degrees. It's more radical and unpopular to say you hate traveling than to rattle off a list of all the exotic places you've been, which is what Instagram is basically for. So I don't think that's so radical, in fact it's very millennial to have a global point of view and be obsessed with being places that aren't your own home town in the country you were born. Perhaps with Covid, people will think twice about being so geographically promiscuous. But my point of view: highly educated, yuppy, and coastal. Move out to a Red State in the US and you'll find plenty of people who find Swoop and the shit we talk about here pretty damn weird.

This. I'm not sure why people in the player world have this "I'm a conversative old fashioned guy who dislikes those pink haired liberals" and thinks they're better. Go to rural Texas, Oklahoma, all the praires/midwest, and talk to people. These edgy swoopers will find that red state residents frown upon the swooper lifestyle and view us as degenerates ruining the nuclear family, no different than those coastal liberal elites. Worked in praries for a 3 years and most of the people settled down young, and raised a family...you know, the thing we would shun and call blue pill. Most of them never understood why I did what I did, going on trips and banging bitches.

To the guys mentioning Roosh, Krauser, et al; those guys stopped because they didn't have anything of value to offer to a worthy woman. They stopped on life's terms instead of their own terms. It's that moment when you realize you hit the wall, no different than a stripper or washed up sugar whore and try to snatch up whatever rich fat man comes your way. If you're a 25 year old foreign woman, are you going to be with a guy who is 40, doesn't have a car or home...and when you google his name are a bunch of negative articles? His rape article might have been a joke....freedom of speech also has freedom of consequences. People made fun of Neil Strauss and Mystery for shagging single moms, but turns out the manosphere gurus are going down the same path because they'll rather scoop up whatever they can instead of going home empty handed.

This is in contrast to Vicious and Laner. Those guys had an actual home, careers, a social circle to vouch for them, and roots in the community. Bitches want them. They dress the part, and do the walk as well. They had a purpose and have something going for themselves in life. Now they're both married, with kids, and a nice white picket fence life. Kerdiesel's path seems similar, he has his own company, in shape, has his shit together....as he said, he can quit on his own terms. If you're a 25 year old foreign woman, are you going to want a guy who has his own home, business, and has a group of friends among his community? 

I've been planning on taking another trip to south america or scandi for the summer, perhaps learn new skills with online advertising or some nomad shit. But as I look more and more into how things work out for the nomad bros...it's looking less pretty. Better to stay, building something (home/skills/biz), and go on trips. At least the guys who took this path have a better outcome than the nomad bros who are approaching 40 and can't afford a life outside Vietnam/Phils/3-tier Ukraine.
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#47
(05-19-2020, 06:03 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote: ...These edgy swoopers will find that red state residents frown upon the swooper lifestyle and view us as degenerates ruining the nuclear family...
If the local yokels don't try to lynch you or run you out of town at least once in your life, you're blue-pilled lol

Quote:If you're a 25 year old foreign woman, are you going to be with a guy who is 40, doesn't have a car or home...and when you google his name are a bunch of negative articles?
There are always young women out there who like the older bad-boy, especially when he is an exotic foreigner.

I can't speak for Roosh directly, but when I compare his writings on Argentina and my own experiences, I am pretty sure one problem was everyone knew he was just a short-term visitor.

The USA is very ageist, whereas in many other countries, older men with more resources have a natural appeal over strong young bucks without jobs or money.

The language barrier means that when you're in a non-English country, negative press you may have had in your English home is left behind, or the story may not be as sensational outside your home context.

Quote:But as I look more and more into how things work out for the nomad bros...it's looking less pretty. Better to stay, building something (home/skills/biz), and go on trips.
One of the biggest sources of resistance when you are a short-term visitor is that chicks don't trust you and don't want to risk their reputation and limited resources if you're a short-timer. If they know you're a long-term resident and could offer a serious relationship this will open many doors. Short-trips are more fun than staying at home, and moving abroad permanently is a big risk, that it true. It's just a matter if you're ready for the risk of jumping in the deep-end of the pool, or just want to get your toes wet.

I don't think the problems of people like Roosh are due to a nomadic lifestyle. Probably it is more accurate to say their nomadic lifestyle was the result of some other need in their life, or just a stage in life when they took a break from life in their home country, the failure to resolve that original problem continued when they went back home.
I be nutting in these bitches!
https://youtu.be/ixCrLAgk4YI
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#48
(05-19-2020, 07:23 PM)Mister Happy Wrote: I don't think the problems of people like Roosh are due to a nomadic lifestyle. Probably it is more accurate to say their nomadic lifestyle was the result of some other need in their life, or just a stage in life when they took a break from life in their home country,  the failure to resolve that original problem continued when they went back home.

Yeah I don't think Roosh is the best example here. He has always been a weird guy who definitely has some underlying issues. This whole legalizing rape & fat shaming thing was super corny. That was the main reason I never contributed much to the older forum, I simply didn't want my writing associated with a forum with Rosh's name on it. He's also not very business savvy. Selling e-books was never a sustainable longterm strategy. Especially not in his niche. I can't imagine that he's ever made much money from it. Also nuking the old forum was a really bad move from a business perspective. For me it was always evident that he's going down a path that leads to nowhere. No professional skills, no client network, no company of his own, no clear business model etc. So from my POV that is just the description of a loser. 

But we don't have to look only at the worst examples. You can also set up the whole thing more intelligently. For example: Learn a skill & provide a service that is modern and in demand. Build a business around it. First start locally, build a good community and client list. Then start travelling to another location. Pick one place and travel there regularly. Start building up a social circle there, and maybe get some clients if possible and financially worthwhile. Start spending more time in the second location, while still working for your local clients. Maybe you can hire an assistant in first location to meet with clients. Maybe even start your own social circle thing in the second location. For example learn DJing and organize parties. In Western A level cities there is obviously a ton of competition, but if you're in EE or SEA you might be able to build a nice scene. That would help you to get local "fame". 

The most important thing is having a strong business model / service / skill that is viable long term. If you have your  own company that provides sought-after work, and you life in EE or SEA for three years, and then want to come back to the West, you should have no problem continuing with your business locally or getting a job. A person like Roosh is completely fucked, what is he supposed to do? No skillset, no work experience. But if you're building yourself up continually then spending some time abroad is not really an issue.
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#49
Nah Fantasist, Cattle Rustler is right. Roosh had a nice niche once upon a time but now is a guy in his 40s with absolutely zero skills and has completely smashed into the wall. He really is no different than a chick in her late 30s who rode the carousel hard, worked on her "career" and has nothing but a bunch of cats and a boxed wine collection to her name. Just like a well put together dude wouldn't go near this 30 year old, there's no decent chick in her right mind who would go anywhere near Roosh for a long term deal, he has nothing to offer.

At this point, all he's got left is a small group of sycophants who are very much in the same boat that he is and I'm not sure how he can monetize a shrinking fan base. The guy is radioactive at this point and I see a desolate, barren future for him. Even though he's taken a whole new direction in his life on the surface, deep down, he still has all of his pathologies that he had when he was PUAing. Seeing God in a magic mushroom filled haze wasn't ever going to change his self destructive tendencies.
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#50
Roosh has extensive digital skills. He would have developed them while building and running RVF, RVF Forum and Return of Kings. There's a very good chance he owns other, more boring web properties and runs them anonymously. He would certainly have the required skills. Whether his ego would allow him to operate something without his name on it, I'm not sure. He's also a good writer and could be doing things behind the scenes in that realm.
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#51
Just because his site has value to it doesn't mean he has any kind of business sense. The value of his site was in the free content contributions (us) and he shut that down due to his own narcissism. He also did that by banning anyone who didn't agree with him over the years. Imagine how well tinders business model would be if there was some psycho chick banning any girl she was jealous of.

Roosh mostly had a midlife crisis because of what Doc Holliday described above. He hit his 40s and realized that going to clubs alone and doing pickups doesn't work as much as it did before and things are getting harder these days. He not only didn't compensate by becoming a higher value man like most guys do by the time they hit their 40s but he also became undateable by any girl who knows how to search google. Pretty much the male version of a wall chick.
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#52
(05-19-2020, 06:03 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:
(05-13-2020, 03:08 AM)fullthrottle Wrote: I'm going to take the unpopular opinion because I'm good at that:

In the US, being a "wanderlust" is very fashionable right now, for men and women, especially amongst those with college degrees. It's more radical and unpopular to say you hate traveling than to rattle off a list of all the exotic places you've been, which is what Instagram is basically for. So I don't think that's so radical, in fact it's very millennial to have a global point of view and be obsessed with being places that aren't your own home town in the country you were born. Perhaps with Covid, people will think twice about being so geographically promiscuous. But my point of view: highly educated, yuppy, and coastal. Move out to a Red State in the US and you'll find plenty of people who find Swoop and the shit we talk about here pretty damn weird.

This. I'm not sure why people in the player world have this "I'm a conversative old fashioned guy who dislikes those pink haired liberals" and thinks they're better. Go to rural Texas, Oklahoma, all the praires/midwest, and talk to people. These edgy swoopers will find that red state residents frown upon the swooper lifestyle and view us as degenerates ruining the nuclear family, no different than those coastal liberal elites. Worked in praries for a 3 years and most of the people settled down young, and raised a family...you know, the thing we would shun and call blue pill. Most of them never understood why I did what I did, going on trips and banging bitches.

To the guys mentioning Roosh, Krauser, et al; those guys stopped because they didn't have anything of value to offer to a worthy woman. They stopped on life's terms instead of their own terms. It's that moment when you realize you hit the wall, no different than a stripper or washed up sugar whore and try to snatch up whatever rich fat man comes your way. If you're a 25 year old foreign woman, are you going to be with a guy who is 40, doesn't have a car or home...and when you google his name are a bunch of negative articles? His rape article might have been a joke....freedom of speech also has freedom of consequences. People made fun of Neil Strauss and Mystery for shagging single moms, but turns out the manosphere gurus are going down the same path because they'll rather scoop up whatever they can instead of going home empty handed.

This is in contrast to Vicious and Laner. Those guys had an actual home, careers, a social circle to vouch for them, and roots in the community. Bitches want them. They dress the part, and do the walk as well. They had a purpose and have something going for themselves in life. Now they're both married, with kids, and a nice white picket fence life. Kerdiesel's path seems similar, he has his own company, in shape, has his shit together....as he said, he can quit on his own terms. If you're a 25 year old foreign woman, are you going to want a guy who has his own home, business, and has a group of friends among his community? 

I've been planning on taking another trip to south america or scandi for the summer, perhaps learn new skills with online advertising or some nomad shit. But as I look more and more into how things work out for the nomad bros...it's looking less pretty. Better to stay, building something (home/skills/biz), and go on trips. At least the guys who took this path have a better outcome than the nomad bros who are approaching 40 and can't afford a life outside Vietnam/Phils/3-tier Ukraine.

This is the correct approach. As you age you have to stop chasing girls, build wealth and health. Within the last 3 years my financials have dramatically changed. Sure I might as not bang as many girls as some of the guys on here but I changed my lifestyle, income and my location to one more favorable for guys like myself. Regardless if what girl you get you will have to take care of yourself to keep that abundance mindset. I know its "regurtitation" but women desire men who are desired by other women. It's one of the key ways you will keep your LTR, wife or any relationship you have with a girl in check. If she knows that you can or are ready to walk out the door at anytime they start getting nervous real quick and having your health and wealth on point as you age will do that. 

I am not not ballin by any means but im working on absolute financial stability so I make SURE i can never go broke again and thats the goal for the next years.

At some point you will age and game will GET HARDER. If you want to stay "alive" you are going to have to compensate in other areas.
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#53
I think you guys are confusing people who make $ working online with people who are broke losers living like bums in third world countries using being a "digital nomad" to as a cover for doing nothing with their lives and being lazy.

Anyone who lives in one of those places and actually has good work ethic and skills can do way better than they can in the west. Let's say someone is working online doing something pretty much anyone can do but putting in 50 hours a week and living in a third world country. They are going to make $15 an hour minimum. Thats 3k a month minimum. In a third world country that gives them spending power equal to someone in the west making 100k a year. Realistically they could live off $2k a month and still live a great lifestyle and save up $1k per month. That's like someone who works at McDonalds in the US and still has $ leftover for savings.

Not to mention that when you live in a place where it's super easy to meet girls and go on dates you don't spend much time chasing girls and you have more time leftover to be productive. When I lived in the US a few years ago I was getting laid just as much as where I live now, but I was spending 4-5x as much time and dealing with all kinds of BS. Not only is it harder to line up dates but it's harder to keep them around so you're starting from scratch.
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#54
^^Yep. Was gonna say something to this effect earlier.

North of 1k of income, savings, in some EE countries is all you need to live like a king. I'm not saying "live like the natives", because doing the second/ third world on 400-500usd sucks. There is no point. You're there to arbitrage the cost of living. Live on 2x or 3x the average income, and you start living nice real quick. Eat out as much as you want, buy all the beer and cigarettes you want, take girls out to dinner without worrying about your pocketbook, go on trips, take taxis as much as you want, instead of riding public transit.

The goal is to go over there and live on much less than you would need in the US, and live better than your Western Standard of living. Otherwise you're doing it wrong.
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#55
I agree that the above (last two posts) sounds like a great lifestyle, and certainly it comes with many advantages, both in terms of women and in general. My main question though - What is the endgame?

If you're planning to eventually settle down and have kids, it is challenging to do that without putting down roots in a community. Moreover, I can imagine that it is particularly hard to put down roots in a place where you come from a completely different culture. There's already been a ton written about this from many sources (including here) so I won't belabor the point - it's hard.

On the other hand, if you plan to eventually return to the US/W.EU to do the family/community thing, you will have to take a significant hit to your lifestyle if you've become accustomed to living on ~$3k/mth. And there's little worse than going from being wealthy to being poor/middle-class, even if your actual income stays the same.

I'm not totally sure how to balance the two. Perhaps it would probably involve building a location-independent income that exceeds $5k/mth, at least. At that salary, you can live pretty well in most parts of the US except for NYC/LA, and if you save up over a multi-year period living abroad, you'd have even more of a nest egg.
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#56
I was already living in a major city in the US before moving to a cheaper country. The only difference now is with my expenses being so low I have way more $ leftover at the end of the month to invest. So the reality is I will have more freedom to have the best lifestyle in any city in the world I choose because I will be in a much better financial position from having lower expenses. After living here for a long period of time I find myself less likely to ever go back to the US. Once you learn the culture more somewhere it becomes better and better. Also the US is getting worse and worse. I have not had any desire to settle down or have kids yet, but I have set up a business where I live focusing more on passive income so I do have some roots here. I did this for money/investment reasons but I think it makes a huge difference for your value as seen by local girls.
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#57
This. Couldn’t have articulated it better.
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#58
(05-20-2020, 08:30 PM)Shimmy Wrote: I was already living in a major city in the US before moving to a cheaper country.  The only difference now is with my expenses being so low I have way more $ leftover at the end of the month to invest.  So the reality is I will have more freedom to have the best lifestyle in any city in the world I choose because I will be in a much better financial position from having lower expenses.  After living here for a long period of time I find myself less likely to ever go back to the US.  Once you learn the culture more somewhere it becomes better and better.  Also the US is getting worse and worse.  I have not had any desire to settle down or have kids yet, but I have set up a business where I live focusing more on passive income so I do have some roots here.  I did this for money/investment reasons but I think it makes a huge difference for your value as seen by local girls.

very much so, about learning the culture and "buying in" happened w/ me about after 3 mos.

Emphasizing with people. Shit hits you like a load of bricks.

Cost of living is nice too, tho.
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#59
(05-20-2020, 04:57 PM)Jerusalem Lothario Wrote: ^^Yep. Was gonna say something to this effect earlier.

North of 1k of income, savings, in some EE countries is all you need to live like a king. I'm not saying "live like the natives", because doing the second/ third world on 400-500usd sucks. There is no point. You're there to arbitrage the cost of living. Live on 2x or 3x the average income, and you start living nice real quick. Eat out as much as you want, buy all the beer and cigarettes you want, take girls out to dinner without worrying about your pocketbook, go on trips, take taxis as much as you want, instead of riding public transit.

The goal is to go over there and live on much less than you would need in the US, and live better than your Western Standard of living. Otherwise you're doing it wrong.

THIS!
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#60
(05-12-2020, 09:38 PM)No More Mr. Soy Boy Wrote: People change and their priorities change.

I think there needs to be some moderation. On one hand you don't want to be a blue pill idiot but at the same time you don't want to look back on your life and realise hoes took more time from your life than they should have done.
If you look at the guys that were running game blogs back in the day; Mark Cernovich,  Paul Janka, Chris from GoodLookingLoser, Roosh and Krauser etc. they were all obsessed about getting new pussy all the time but until recently they have settled down or been talking about trying to do so.
As you mature and get older you realise it's not everything in life and sex becomes less valuable. The sex drive isn't the same either and guys like Roosh and Krauser are probably having a tougher time finding a quality woman to settle down with now in their 40's than they did when they were younger.
So don't be naive and think this couldn't have its drawbacks too later in life when you most likely will have other priorities.

Besides, I think it's pretty dull to spend several years mastering the skill of banging sluts. What real world skill does it really teach/give you?
If I got rid of all the hours and effort I spent on chasing tail and had shifted it towards money, I'd be a multi-billionaire by now. And to be fair, I think most guys going to shitholes like Cambodia aren't exactly banging 9's and 10's anyway.

But on the other hand I'm obviously glad I never picked the path of the normie and settled with a 5-6 and never tried things like going to different countries by myself or never had the balls to approach random women.
I'm open to settle down if I come across a woman who fits my standard for it but she would have to be of such a high standard that it's possible such woman doesn't exist and in that case I've also accepted that I might have to be a lonewolf for life.

This x 1000

Moderation is the key. Travel and banging sluts usually starts to lose it's appeal once you done it enough. Maybe that's not even the correct way to describe it as travel and banging sluts is always fun, but priorities change. 

Ive been living this life for about 12 years. Looking back, I would make some adjustments. Have a bit more moderation.
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