Men 20-29: what do we do to better ourselves, live life, before 30's/ Middle Age?
#1
This has been a question that has crossed my mind a lot recently. The only thing we run out of day-by-day is our time and our youth. And before going forward, I have to say I don't think there's a right answer to this question. You can probably break this question down into sub-components.

1) Career/ career development/ finances- Do you start at the bottom and climb a ladder? Make your own opportunities? Or create a business?
2) Health/ fitness- How do you instill good habits in yourself now, and what do you do to sure you're at your peak, and will be in good shape years from now?
3) Social development/ women- Do you take every opportunity to be social, or balance that against other more fruitful endeavors? How do you handle women, when many your age are flaky or unwilling to "be serious"?
4) Travel- Where ought you be traveling in your 20's?
5) Valuable life skills/ personal development- While netflix is always there for you, what's to stop you from reading books or learning life lessons from older mentors and elders? What skills ought you learn that will have some positive impact on your life.

My thoughts:

1) Personally always knew I was never a fit for "corporate". Thus, I am learning programming to go into a consulting related field. If you don't have some shitty jobs in your 20's, you are missing out on how shitty the job market is, and its cold hard realities.
2) My belief is better to do a manageable fitness program than to fail to meet goals. Fitness is a long term thing and improves cognitive function. Sport is a way to meet like-minded people who are not drains on you.
3) I go in bursts based on where I am. Try to surround myself with people more interesting than me.
4) Travel before you have commitments or jobs taking 80hrs weekly of your time.
5) I gave up video games to focus on more important pursuits. Reading in particular. History, philosophy, textbooks. Finally learned how to drive a stick and tie a bowtie. Small skills to be sure, but really cool things to know. Have multiple mentors.


What do you guys think?
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#2
You have to find something you're passionate about and relentlessly pursue it. Transform that thing into a career or business idea.
If you fail to do this by 30, that will be a tragedy. Forget about girls and lifting if you can't support yourself financially and you have no other motivation in life.

Social life...
Forget your high school and college friends, unless they're "in the trenches" with you in you pursuits. Most of my friends I've met through jobs, and we've "been through the ringer" together in one way or another - be it that we've delivered projects together and have survived bureaucracies. Arnold Schwarzenegger closest friend was a fellow body builder. Shared adversity is the most effective male bonding.

You will probably change as a human being dramatically between age 20 and 29. If you don't, that's a problem. Evolving, changing, is important, and you'll probably outgrow a lot of people as a result. I hardly remember people I went to high school or college with, my entire context of being has changed since then.

Take some big risks. My entire 20s was marked by serious social, professional, and financial risks. It's made me tougher as a person as a result. You can probably afford it. In 2020, skipping college (and college debt) and pursuing something outside of the approved framework for success is a risk you probably want to take.

Don't live in the suburbs. Your context of growing up was probably comfortable and safe. This harms more than helps you as a human. Live in a dangerous city for a chunk of your 20s, preferably in a shitty apartment/roommate situation where you can learn to function independently, be less materialistic, and more street smart. This will help toughen you up as maybe a good precursor for living abroad, and provides opportunities to meet chicks and other players.

Volunteer for nonprofits and learn how the other half lives, that not everyone has it as great as you, some people are in terribly shitty situations. This will make you appreciate your opportunities more and can be a motivator. Amazing how many American and European guys complain about their "shitty corporate job". Wow, you're lucky you're employed and healthy dude.
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#3
Learn to better deal with your thoughts and your mind through Meditation.

I highly recommend it. That can really help you in today's hyperconnected ADHD enducing world of nonstop stimuli. And it really helps your mind focus better and be more at ease in general.

You can check out some free apps like HeadSpace and try it out.
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#4
(05-02-2020, 03:29 AM)Jerusalem Lothario Wrote: 1) Personally always knew I was never a fit for "corporate". Thus, I am learning programming to go into a consulting related field. If you don't have some shitty jobs in your 20's, you are missing out on how shitty the job market is, and its cold hard realities.

What do you guys think?

First off, as someone who now runs his own business in my early 20s, who used to code, clearing 75k a year post tax income, of all the fields that you are calling corporate, programming is probably THE single most corporate one you could have chosen. 

Everything else in your post besides this first line had me nodding my head. I am aware fulthrottle is a full time developer himself, however he will tell you off the bat, you aren't gonna just jump into consulting for code. You're gonna have to cut your teeth somewhere, and the guys raking in money from consulting have already done so at the FAANG companies (Facebook, Amazon, Apple, Netflix, Google.) 

Disclaimer, despite running my own business, I still am using corporate connections to later on get residency abroad. I run my business outside of office hours, and take a flight every week or 2 out to the West Coast. Granted, that was slowed down somewhat recently but the business niche I'm in actually grew while COVID was hitting. 

I'll say this. If you don't want to go corporate at all, you're gonna have to do 1 of 2 things. 

You can do what I did, shave down the rough and rebellious parts of your personality to *temporarily* get a corporate job. I am not advocating being a pussy. I am advocating getting money by any means. You are definitely gonna have to put up with that as a programmer friend.

I chose to jump into a Business Analyst role, and now am trying to land a role as a Junior IT Project Manager. I highly recommend Project Management. I get treated WAY better than a coder does by the company, I have authority to do shit, and I'm not on the chopping block unless I make a major mistake. The skills you learn are also applicable to actually running your own business. I can find a coder in Eastern Europe to make my app for the cheap.

I'm not hating on coding. It has a lucrative outlook. But if you hate corporate with all your guts, I suggest learning a trade like electrical, plumbing, if you want to go into real estate. IF you wanted something else, there's other "red pill" jobs out there like flying planes, B2B sales, etc.
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#5
not even 30 and bones feel like 80 sometimes. football car accident no pain pills existence is pain
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#6
(05-02-2020, 02:44 PM)Triad Wrote:
(05-02-2020, 03:29 AM)Jerusalem Lothario Wrote: 1) Personally always knew I was never a fit for "corporate". Thus, I am learning programming to go into a consulting related field. If you don't have some shitty jobs in your 20's, you are missing out on how shitty the job market is, and its cold hard realities.

What do you guys think?

First off, as someone who now runs his own business in my early 20s, who used to code, clearing 75k a year post tax income, of all the fields that you are calling corporate, programming is probably THE single most corporate one you could have chosen. 

Everything else in your post besides this first line had me nodding my head. I am aware fulthrottle is a full time developer himself, however he will tell you off the bat, you aren't gonna just jump into consulting for code. You're gonna have to cut your teeth somewhere, and the guys raking in money from consulting have already done so at the FAANG companies (Facebook, Amazon, Apple, Netflix, Google.) 

Disclaimer, despite running my own business, I still am using corporate connections to later on get residency abroad. I run my business outside of office hours, and take a flight every week or 2 out to the West Coast. Granted, that was slowed down somewhat recently but the business niche I'm in actually grew while COVID was hitting. 

I'll say this. If you don't want to go corporate at all, you're gonna have to do 1 of 2 things. 

You can do what I did, shave down the rough and rebellious parts of your personality to *temporarily* get a corporate job. I am not advocating being a pussy. I am advocating getting money by any means. You are definitely gonna have to put up with that as a programmer friend.

I chose to jump into a Business Analyst role, and now am trying to land a role as a Junior IT Project Manager. I highly recommend Project Management. I get treated WAY better than a coder does by the company, I have authority to do shit, and I'm not on the chopping block unless I make a major mistake. The skills you learn are also applicable to actually running your own business. I can find a coder in Eastern Europe to make my app for the cheap.

I'm not hating on coding. It has a lucrative outlook. But if you hate corporate with all your guts, I suggest learning a trade like electrical, plumbing, if you want to go into real estate. IF you wanted something else, there's other "red pill" jobs out there like flying planes, B2B sales, etc.

I'm talking about leveraging coding knowledge into another domain that I already have a track record in. As far as sucking dick as a programmer, yeah I guess it happens. Depending on company, very corporate. Going down that route, if I do, I plan on spending no more than a few years.

Let me assure you, have worked an array of shitty jobs, I dont think coding falls in there as a shitty job. For example restaurants and manual labor both suck.
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#7
(05-02-2020, 02:44 PM)Triad Wrote:
(05-02-2020, 03:29 AM)Jerusalem Lothario Wrote: 1) Personally always knew I was never a fit for "corporate". Thus, I am learning programming to go into a consulting related field. If you don't have some shitty jobs in your 20's, you are missing out on how shitty the job market is, and its cold hard realities.

What do you guys think?

First off, as someone who now runs his own business in my early 20s, who used to code, clearing 75k a year post tax income, of all the fields that you are calling corporate, programming is probably THE single most corporate one you could have chosen. 

Everything else in your post besides this first line had me nodding my head. I am aware fulthrottle is a full time developer himself, however he will tell you off the bat, you aren't gonna just jump into consulting for code. You're gonna have to cut your teeth somewhere, and the guys raking in money from consulting have already done so at the FAANG companies (Facebook, Amazon, Apple, Netflix, Google.) 

Disclaimer, despite running my own business, I still am using corporate connections to later on get residency abroad. I run my business outside of office hours, and take a flight every week or 2 out to the West Coast. Granted, that was slowed down somewhat recently but the business niche I'm in actually grew while COVID was hitting. 

I'll say this. If you don't want to go corporate at all, you're gonna have to do 1 of 2 things. 

You can do what I did, shave down the rough and rebellious parts of your personality to *temporarily* get a corporate job. I am not advocating being a pussy. I am advocating getting money by any means. You are definitely gonna have to put up with that as a programmer friend.

I chose to jump into a Business Analyst role, and now am trying to land a role as a Junior IT Project Manager. I highly recommend Project Management. I get treated WAY better than a coder does by the company, I have authority to do shit, and I'm not on the chopping block unless I make a major mistake. The skills you learn are also applicable to actually running your own business. I can find a coder in Eastern Europe to make my app for the cheap.

I'm not hating on coding. It has a lucrative outlook. But if you hate corporate with all your guts, I suggest learning a trade like electrical, plumbing, if you want to go into real estate. IF you wanted something else, there's other "red pill" jobs out there like flying planes, B2B sales, etc.

"Project management" if that's the title, it sounds like an old megacorp that isn't heavily influenced by Silicon Valley. The kind of Diberty place I wouldn't want to work...
"Product Management" is what we call it in the tech startup world. It's extremely competitive and you have a lot of MBAs in this space. You don't have the same kind of job opportunities as engineers, and they don't pay as well until the higher levels. It is a sweet gig if you can get it, i have many friends doing it. Generally speaking, the skills to be a great product manager and great engineer are different. You're right being a product manager is closer to the business side of things, though from an engineers perspective, product managers are very expendable as they don't produce anything. Glorified Jira wranglers.

(05-02-2020, 03:25 PM)Jerusalem Lothario Wrote:
(05-02-2020, 02:44 PM)Triad Wrote:
(05-02-2020, 03:29 AM)Jerusalem Lothario Wrote: 1) Personally always knew I was never a fit for "corporate". Thus, I am learning programming to go into a consulting related field. If you don't have some shitty jobs in your 20's, you are missing out on how shitty the job market is, and its cold hard realities.

What do you guys think?

First off, as someone who now runs his own business in my early 20s, who used to code, clearing 75k a year post tax income, of all the fields that you are calling corporate, programming is probably THE single most corporate one you could have chosen. 

Everything else in your post besides this first line had me nodding my head. I am aware fulthrottle is a full time developer himself, however he will tell you off the bat, you aren't gonna just jump into consulting for code. You're gonna have to cut your teeth somewhere, and the guys raking in money from consulting have already done so at the FAANG companies (Facebook, Amazon, Apple, Netflix, Google.) 

Disclaimer, despite running my own business, I still am using corporate connections to later on get residency abroad. I run my business outside of office hours, and take a flight every week or 2 out to the West Coast. Granted, that was slowed down somewhat recently but the business niche I'm in actually grew while COVID was hitting. 

I'll say this. If you don't want to go corporate at all, you're gonna have to do 1 of 2 things. 

You can do what I did, shave down the rough and rebellious parts of your personality to *temporarily* get a corporate job. I am not advocating being a pussy. I am advocating getting money by any means. You are definitely gonna have to put up with that as a programmer friend.

I chose to jump into a Business Analyst role, and now am trying to land a role as a Junior IT Project Manager. I highly recommend Project Management. I get treated WAY better than a coder does by the company, I have authority to do shit, and I'm not on the chopping block unless I make a major mistake. The skills you learn are also applicable to actually running your own business. I can find a coder in Eastern Europe to make my app for the cheap.

I'm not hating on coding. It has a lucrative outlook. But if you hate corporate with all your guts, I suggest learning a trade like electrical, plumbing, if you want to go into real estate. IF you wanted something else, there's other "red pill" jobs out there like flying planes, B2B sales, etc.

I'm talking about leveraging coding knowledge into another domain that I already have a track record in. As far as sucking dick as a programmer, yeah I guess it happens. Depending on company, very corporate. Going down that route, if I do, I plan on spending no more than a few years.

Let me assure you, have worked an array of shitty jobs, I dont think coding falls in there as a shitty job. For example restaurants and manual labor both suck.

I started my career is a digital marketer with coding skills to build websites. Coding was part of the job, but it wasn't the job. Ultimately, it makes it difficult to get good at it and to get properly paid for your skills, since marketing pays way less than engineering. My personal goals and what excites me is building a product. That's software engineering. Whereas, you can be an analyst that uses Python or whatever to produce elaborate charts (data science), that doesn't really interest me at all... The guy whose an "analyst" at a megacorp, that's the worst position to be in... basically, the guys in Office Space fit the bill lol.

One extra note. Software at a tech startup isn't "the most corporate" thing you can choose. One of our senior leaders has a ponytail and wears flipflops around the office. It's pretty relaxed.
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#8
Not directly related to OPs question, but here are some thoughts that came to mind and things I wish I knew when I was 20:

1) Develop the right mindset when it comes to women, money, fitness, personal development, etc. Most men are raised by people with a terrible mindset and then develop a terrible mindset themselves. Question everything you're being taught by society, university and your social circle (especially your family) and think critically about the things you have already accepted as your reality. In a lot of cases, the norms the society has established over the last decades are exactly the opposite of what you might want to do with your life (e.g. the notion of going to school, getting in debt for a university degree, starting a family, getting a mortgage and then slaving away until your 70). Use critical thinking and find out if you really agree with the "normal" world view most people have.

2) Develop the right habits. Almost every success in life comes down to having the right habits. It's much easier to be successful with women, in the gym, in your career, in your relationships, etc. if you have positive habits. Identify bad habits you are currently following and get rid of them. Identify those good habits that help you reach your goals in every area of life and establish them as habits (e.g. waking up early instead of sleeping in until 10am).

3) Be grateful and don't be a bitch. Somewhere in the world there is a person who has it much worse than you. Never forget that and always take full responsibility for your current situation. If you're broke, it's your fault, If you're a virgin, it's your fault. If you're obese, it's your fault. But it's also your chance to change all those things.

4) Be proactive, not reactive.  Life doesn't give a shit about you and it is entirely up to you to create the life you want.

5) Leave your comfort zone on a regular basis. This is the fastest way to grow as a man. Make a list of all things that would make you feel uncomfortable if you had to do them (we all have things we are scared of or would feel uncomfortable doing). All those things can be tied to a comfort zone and by pushing yourself to do these things, you can leave that comfort zone and grow. This can be as simple as trying out a new exercise in the gym (fear of being judged by others in the gym) and as complex as flying to a foreign country where nobody speaks English and learning the local language (fear of change / fear of failure). Face your fears, leave your comfort zones and you will grow.

6) Figure out women, money, and your passions. It sounds shallow, but if a man has women, money and his passions figured out, there isn't much anymore in this world that is hard to pursue. Almost everything we do in life is somehow related to these three things. I recommend starting with money, because it makes everything else much easier. 

7) Figure out what makes you happy. Do more of those things. Personally, I aspire to only do things in my life that I want to do but the interesting thing is that you have to do plenty of things you don't want to do (e.g. leave comfort zones, work your ass off when you'd rather go clubbing and pick up girls) in order to get to a position where you can only do what you want. In other words: Discipline = Freedom. If you lack the freedom to do those things on a regular basis, identify the problems (e.g. money might be an issue, time might be an issue, your social circle holding you back might be an issue, your health might be an issue, your social skills or personality might be an issue). Then create a plan to overcome those problems and execute that plan. Again, in order to execute the plan, you'll most likely have to do things that make you feel uncomfortable. The right mindset and habits help a lot here.

8) Surround yourself with people who want the best for you. You want a social circle of people you can grow with together. People with the right mindset, habits and goals. People who support you on your journey. 

9) Transform yourself. Evaluate who you are right now (your character traits, your personality, your current situation, your comfort zones, your weaknesses, the people you surround yourself with, etc.). Score yourself from 1 to 10 in every area of life that is important to you (money, freedom, relationships, women, social skills, physical fitness, mental fitness, emotional, health, etc.) and take a personality test (e.g. 16personalities.com). Then, define who you want to become. It's crazy but most people never take the time to think deeply about who they want to become and what kind of life they want to have. If you don't define those things (better write them down and be as specific as possible), you'll never achieve the life you want. Then figure out the things you have to do to become who you want to become (e.g. if you're a virgin right now and want to become an international playboy that travels the world 24/7 and owns real estate in 5 different countries, there are tons of things that you have to do in order to get to that desired life of yours). Then do those things and execute. Most people never realize that they have full control over their future-self. Humans are exceptionally good at transforming their bodies, personalities, skills, and life. You can even change your own genes!

10) Enjoy the journey and never forget where you came from.
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#9
The point I was trying to make isn't about coding. By 25 years old I'll never walk into an office for the rest of my life.

Here's the point.

This is a forum for GAME and for PLAYERS, fucking women, picking up girls. You said my office is "Dilbert?" Nice dig, but I'm not gonna go into how wrong that is right now. We refer to programmers as "special people" in my office Wink

I don't know ANY programmers who are hardcore players and get laid. They might claim they get laid a ton, but I've never seen it before. I'm sure maybe somewhere they exist out there.

For the actual content of the thread, I'll give my two cents. Guys fall into a 3 camps usually.

Camp #1: "Happy now, Unhappy later." That's the typical player. Has a lot of fun in his 20s but doesn't financially secure himself for the future. This includes alot of ESL people, although the smarter ones actually do pretty well for themselves. Most people who fall into this camp are in for a world of hurt, especially how the world is going.

Camp #2: "Unhappy now, says he will be happy later or doesn't know". This is where 99% of computer programmers fall into. You're simply NEVER going to make it in times like these by working for a corporation. To boot, many of these guys are completely socially inept. Life is all about SALES, whether that is women, making CONNECTIONS, or selling your own products. This is the path that society programs everyone to follow. You just simply WON'T have as much success with women unless you go against the grain, especially in this day and age. 

Where you want to be is in the third camp.

"Happy now, Happy later." You're having a kick ass time now, and you're gonna be having an EVEN BETTER time in 10 years.

You can say that Software Engineers all are mega playboys and socially competent but I just haven't seen any.

That's why on a forum for game and playboys, I am NOT recommending young 20 something guys spend the best years of their entire life behind a computer screen. This isn't RVF where when you ask about finding a wife, motherfuckers say you should "wait" and "let god do the work." If you really love programming, which you guys may very well, then by all means, have at it. My post was not about to rip programmers. They make a good income.

There's tons of ways to make money. Take the cannabis business in California for instance. I know guys who are 25 years old and have no boss, already cleared a million dollars legally. There's unlimited possibilities...

1) Do something you can have fun at now
2) Do something that will be profitable and able to start a business later.
3) Learn Sales. We call it game, other people call it networking. Don't wanna sell? Too bad, that's the world we live in.

GREAT article by my man Maverick Traveler covering the programming issue for young men:

https://mavericktraveler.com/6-reasons-w...ogrammers/
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#10
Don't be an urban drone. Expose yourself to nature on a regular basis. Hike, camp, fish, hunt if you have the means. Birdwatching and astronomy are fun and easy hobbies that give you a reason to be outdoors.

Urban environments may be good for work and game but you need to get out on a regular basis... and crowded parks are not a substitute.

Going to Vegas for a weekend for example is an expensive and dumb idea unless you're a baller. Spending a weekend in a National Park with a few buddies camping out is an inexpensive and more fruitful retreat. Forming bonds with other men who like the outdoors will pay dividends when you get older and get together for a couple trips each year.
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#11
In your 20's, it's quite okay to wholeheartedly pursue romance, career, or hobbies, or a mixture. Your hobbies could very well lead you to meet women, or influence your career path. Your job could allow you to meet women, and of course the money allows you to pursue women and hobbies. Or you could pursue women who have connections that lead to a career.
It's also very normal in your 20's to be unsure where you want to go, and to explore many areas.
Of course at some point in late 20's you (or your romantic interest) will want material things like house etc. and you will eventually need to pursue career to make money.
As you get on in your career, you can become much more attractive to women. On the other hand, college also exposes you to many women, and they are less concerned about your career at that point.
I do think 20's area good time to be open minded and explore.

For travel, could be close to home, like Mexico or Canada if you're from the USA and can't afford to go far away. Developed countries in Asia. It's not really necessary to go to a poosy paradise... try to meet women who might make a good wife, in case in your youthful exuberance and naivete you catch feelings and get married. So go to places with high value women who can be your equal, Australia, Europe, Japan etc. I don't think South America, EE, SEA are the best options in this age.
I be nutting in these bitches!
https://youtu.be/ixCrLAgk4YI
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#12
The main idea of your 20s is to get as much life experience as you can while out on your own, and navigate yourself toward the goal of making money and building wealth in your 30s and beyond.  We're all going to fuck up and make mistakes, especially starting out in life, and your 20s is the best time to do as much of that as possible.  You really don't have much to lose early on so the risk is abysmal.  I don't have many regrets from my 20s, but the main one was the pressure I felt from society to somehow have it all together and something to show for it (assets, house, marriage, etc) by the time I turned 30.  That was what my parent's generation did, but they also entered adulthood under much better circumstances than my generation.

I've seen quite a few threads between here and RVF of dudes trying to bypass the learning curve and build an empire by the time they're 28.  Sure you have the outliers, but it just doesn't happen like that for most men.  I was broke as hell during my 20s and came into my industry at the worst possible time in employment history, but I made it work and I grew tremendously as a person during my 20s.  My first real job involved me packing whatever I could fit into my Camaro and heading out west to San Diego for a small company that hired me over the phone. It was the only place that gave me a shot.  I was 24 years old and did not know a fucking soul in California, but I started from scratch, made some friends, and had a blast along the way.  I worked my ass off for poquito dinero, partied harder than I ever did while living at home during college, and learned some valuable lessons.  I had the least amount of money and possessions than at any point in my life and also the most amount of fun and fulfillment.  It was quite the time to be alive.

Fast forward into my 30s and those experiences along with added perseverance have payed out major dividends...
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#13
1. be mindful of your habits because they are your destiny. Not just substances but diet, exercise, whey you wake, etc.
2. develop a passive income stream. Just do something. You are young, it can be small. The key is to start now. Once you build one, your second one will be better, etc.
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#14
It's been a while since I've been on the forums. I figured it wouldn't hurt to offer my thoughts once in a while. This also seems to be an apt topic. I'm almost 42 now. Been through a lot in life. After immigrating with my parents from India to the USA at the age of 12, I joined the US Navy at 18, saw the world, went to college, worked at one of the largest consulting firms, then moved to a sales/business career, got married, and now have 3 children.

I seem to have learned many harsh realities in my 30s rather than earlier believe it or not. The military gave me rules to follow and it was easy for me to follow them. It was a lot more difficult for me to have create my own value system after I got out. I mean, no one cared about how regimented I was at college or how neatly I could make my bed. Understanding yourself and what you believe can improve how you manage your fitness, career, women and money. Many people here know more about fitness and women than I do. So I'll focus on the rest.

Budgeting is something I would advise every single one of you to focus on in your 20s or 30s. A lot of folks here mention "money" in passing but you really need to figure out what that is. When most young cats think of money, they feel inferior to the concept and don't want to deal with it head on. You need to deal with fundamental concepts such as debt and time value of money. First of all ask yourself, how much debt do you have? Is any of it credit card debt? If you DO HAVE credit card debt, instead of saving or investing money, you will have a better return if you pay off your credit card. The interest dollars you save from paying your credit card early will be higher than your average investment return. It sounds crazy but it's true.

As far as controlling money, you will be better off using a budgeting tool like Mint. How many guys of us here use something like this? Instead of spending based on your desires, figure out how much you want to save, let's say $1,000 a month and create a budget that is $1,000 lower. Budget properly for food, alcohol, entertainment. All this adds up. If you are not budgeting properly, I can almost offer you a 100% guarantee that you are throwing money away. You will be able to retain more value for your money by following simple budgeting fundamentals. Some of these are not widely publicized.

You guys need to pick up Travis Hornsby's Mastering Money if you haven't already. I have the book. PM me if you would like to see it.
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#15
Good stuff here. 

As someone in his early twenties and about to graduate from university, I feel an overwhelming amount of pressure to better myself. 

One thing I noticed was that I was living in the past. From time to time I regret that I wasn't more sociable in college. I also regret not putting much effort into self-improvement. I promised myself I'd join RVF but never did. 

I later realized I'm just beating myself up. I did put effort, but I failed. What I didn't realize then was that if I failed I had to try an alternate approach and get back on my feet. Instead, I did the same thing that led me to my failures while expecting new results (definition of insanity). 

I also have a tendency to overthink stupid stuff. To me, that happened because I have free time. So: something I decided to start with is read more books and whatever I can get my hands on. I'm currently into Benjamin Graham's "The Intelligent Investor" because I want to get into stocks long-term. I started looking through online archives of old RVF posts so that I can learn strategies on how to be less reliant on my family as well as get more into game while my state's on lockdown. I'm currently collecting and reading Giovonny's old posts because his approach method is straightforward and applicable to college campuses. 

I also started keeping a journal. Writing in it and reading what I write has made me realize key things; for example, one of my journal entries was about my oneitis over some girl the year below me at university. Reading that one allowed me to realize, "Hey, this isn't healthy, I have better things to do than that." Also, whenever I have an epiphany of some sort, I immediately run to jot it down. Last night, for instance, I had one about how people are afraid of standing out from the crowd by being creative and making something of their own because they're pressured into fitting the mold. The mold being possessing a secure, corporate job over the course of a few decades. (That epiphany was partially inspired by Paul Arden's work.) 

Another thing: a lot of teenagers and twenty-somethings spend time on their cellphones scrolling through social media like Instagram. I tend to do that. Turn the cell off, put it away, and don't even look at it if you need to Google something or check your email. 

Pick up a hobby that acts as a creative outlet. Make it a possible source of income. I have two hobbies: one that's creative and for fun, and another that's creative but could be a source of income. The former is playing on my guitar, the latter is graphic design using Adobe programs. But that's my example, it's not set in stone. 

This is a good thread, I'm going to keep my eye on it. Anyone else like me, I suggest you do the same.
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#16
For me personally:

1. Career & finances: I'd say in your twenties you need to value experiences over money. You need to avoid debt off course and it helps to do some jobs, even trade jobs or student jobs to get a more realistic outlook on life, but if you as a young man are obsessed with money, I think odds are high that you will end up a bitter man with regrets of not having lived a full life when young. Many things can be experienced on a later age, but not all. I wouldn't trade some of my childhood/young man memories for anything. I also advise taking risks with whatever money you have available when investing. Investing small amounts at young age in stocks, currencies, businesses etc. will make that you have a stake in the game and you will learn before most of your age what works and what not. Most is learned by doing. When it comes to careers, I think it can actually be an advantage to become a specialist to have some job security. Better to take up education in an actual trade or science than in ambiguous subjects such as sociology, politics, economics, philosophy, communication science etc. Those can all be very interesting, but are better studied outside a university or college.

2. Health & fitness: as a guy who was quite active in sports my whole life (and still am), I'd advise that unless you have a real chance of becoming a professional athlete, it's better to become a complete athlete than to specialize in one sport. Train your whole body and do it for yourself, not to impress friends or girls. I also wish I learned about stretching, yoga, pilates etc. besides more manly sports. I'm sure I'll pay the price for that soon enough. Also try some more unique sports if you get the chance, challenge yourself in things you are not familiar with. It makes for good conversation as well if you tried many things in life.

3. Social development/women: put yourself out there as much as you can. Make those awkward conversations. Learn to build a social network that is varied. It's better to have 10 good friends that are all very different than to have 10 friends that are all into the same stuff, do the same shit. The more diverse your network, the more you can learn. This also means putting yourself in different social circles, whether through travel, through different hobbies, through being active and going out a lot. When it comes to women, I advise a young man to not take things too serious, just to have fun. You will most likely fall in love once or many times, but know that nothing is fixed. Be morally ambiguous, intellectually flexible and emotionally stable.

4. Travel: Whenever you have the opportunity to travel, do it. In fact, I advise every young man to spend most of their money on travel. Forget the new iPhone or PlayStation, buy some plane or train tickets. When choosing between different destinations, always pick a place where few people go to. Imagine meeting a 35 year old that went to New York, London, Ibiza, Prague and Thailand or meeting a 35-year old that went to Liberia, Mongolia, Belarus, Japan and Iran. Which one would you prefer to have a chat with? Which one do you think learned the most? Another very enlightening experience is traveling solo or studying abroad. Both are unique experiences that will help form your character.

5. Life skills/personal development: Start reading the classics and the most praised non-fiction books. I didn't read anything before my 23/24 but I'm making up for it now. If you have some interest in it, try writing as well, even if you just note down experiences for yourself. Make sure you have a tracking system and evaluate adequately your progress in whatever you deem important. See it as if you are your own boss, you need to get that progress report done at the end of the month. Try to learn at least two of the big world languages as well and more if possible. Another habit I value are just plain walking, you open yourself to a lot when you walk daily, new thoughts, new encounters and new places. When it comes to social media, make sure you are a producer of content and not a consumer. You should use social media in your favor, but make sure it doesn't become a timesink. Gaming and watching sports are two of my other guilty pleasures but I took the decision to stop gaming at age 16 and besides in corona times where I started gaming a bit again that had been a great change in my life. A young man these days that doesn't game too much, does not have any social media addiction, does not watch porn all the time and maintains most social contact in person is already way ahead of the average.

Great thread! I might add some more or make some changes over time.
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#17
Some great points made above, especially Cobra's advice on budgeting and finance, avoiding bad debt and living within your means is essential. Investing earlier than later will definitely pay off later on in life so develop good financial habits early on and keep making more money and saving, trust me, I've made a lot but also spent a lot and wish that I had saved more in my 20s and early 30s.

Another big one is addiction issues, if you think that you're drinking too much or doing much drugs then seek help, there's a lot of support out there. I learned this past weekend that an old friend of mine died last week after a drug overdose, he had a heart attack and had to be induced into a coma then his family had to decide to take him off of life support, what a shitty thing to happen. He was one of those guys who liked to party really hard in his 20s but kept going like that into his 30s and it caught up to him at the age of 38.
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#18
1) Career/ career development/ finances- Do you start at the bottom and climb a ladder? Make your own opportunities? Or create a business?
2) Health/ fitness- How do you instill good habits in yourself now, and what do you do to sure you're at your peak, and will be in good shape years from now?
3) Social development/ women- Do you take every opportunity to be social, or balance that against other more fruitful endeavors? How do you handle women, when many your age are flaky or unwilling to "be serious"?
4) Travel- Where ought you be traveling in your 20's?
5) Valuable life skills/ personal development- While netflix is always there for you, what's to stop you from reading books or learning life lessons from older mentors and elders? What skills ought you learn that will have some positive impact on your life.

1: I'm 27.  I have a degree in Business and worked last few years in some depressing sales/Logistics jobs. I never worked somewhere longer than 8 months I think. I started my E-commerce business last year and I'm also into options trading (I'm already doing this a few years). I lost quite a bit last year when starting out with my Ecommerce business and lost around 15k. God bless it were savings and I don't have any debt. Now, I'm starting to get profitable in my Ecommerce business and trading is going okay as well but with very low profits monthly. It's been a pretty rough last 2 years. During this time I changed jobs I worked abroad in China (teaching) just after graduation, travelled in South-East Asia/ East Asia. A business will make or break your mood but I hate it to be an employee. I remember just been fired after a week before here in Western-Europe after I was putting into a lot of effort, I'd never forget how shitty they treated me. It's my fuel/motivation for letting my business grow Dealing with depressing co-workers here in Europe and the boring lifestyle here draws me down. For other young people: first get your finances in order or you can in trouble sooner or later. Travelling broke is funny in your early 20s but not so later on.

2: I'm more on the skinny side, I'm trying to hire a PT whenever I have more cash

3) Social development/ women- I have basically no social life atm outside family and some old high school friends. I've been chasing pussy mostly in my college years and I've been travelling to SEA/ lived in East Asia to chase tail whenever I was early-mid 20's and had my share of fun. In my homecountry in Western Europe, I usually was in relationships or had 1 older plate (usually early 30s).  Concerning women, I plan on moving abroad to Spain/Colombia/East Asia. I have no interest of staying in Western Europe. I'm looking for submissive plates or a stable in the girlfriend . Time will tell. I do miss the social lifestyle like in Phils, I'm an extravert person so I don't think I fit in well here in Western Europe. I just miss going for a coffee with buddies in a city or grab some beers together.

4) Travel- Where ought you be traveling in your 20's? High on my list: Brazil, Argentine, South Africa and Colombia are the countries still on my list.  If I visited those countries I feel like I fullfilled my childhood dreams to visit all the countries I wanted. I lived, travelled already to in : Poland, China, South Korea, Taiwan, Phils, Thailand , Indonesia, Dubai etc

5) Valuable life skills/ personal development- : I'm reading every day at least 40 minutes. I like to read about pyholosophy, business, mindset and history. So far I red: Think and grow rich, Secrets of the millionaire mind, Rich dad poor dad, Obstacle is the way, awaken the giant within and the richest man of babylon. I want to learn to meditate to learn to control my emotions and thoughts better. I do daily affirmations to enforce my believe system. I aim for location independence and will do whatever it takes to reach that. I also want to be fluent in Spanish and want to master Judo.
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#19
(05-02-2020, 03:29 AM)Jerusalem Lothario Wrote: This has been a question that has crossed my mind a lot recently. The only thing we run out of day-by-day is our time and our youth. And before going forward, I have to say I don't think there's a right answer to this question. You can probably break this question down into sub-components.

1) Career/ career development/ finances- Do you start at the bottom and climb a ladder? Make your own opportunities? Or create a business?
2) Health/ fitness- How do you instill good habits in yourself now, and what do you do to sure you're at your peak, and will be in good shape years from now?
3) Social development/ women- Do you take every opportunity to be social, or balance that against other more fruitful endeavors? How do you handle women, when many your age are flaky or unwilling to "be serious"?
4) Travel- Where ought you be traveling in your 20's?
5) Valuable life skills/ personal development- While netflix is always there for you, what's to stop you from reading books or learning life lessons from older mentors and elders? What skills ought you learn that will have some positive impact on your life.

My thoughts:

1) Personally always knew I was never a fit for "corporate". Thus, I am learning programming to go into a consulting related field. If you don't have some shitty jobs in your 20's, you are missing out on how shitty the job market is, and its cold hard realities.
2) My belief is better to do a manageable fitness program than to fail to meet goals. Fitness is a long term thing and improves cognitive function. Sport is a way to meet like-minded people who are not drains on you.
3) I go in bursts based on where I am. Try to surround myself with people more interesting than me.
4) Travel before you have commitments or jobs taking 80hrs weekly of your time.
5) I gave up video games to focus on more important pursuits. Reading in particular. History, philosophy, textbooks. Finally learned how to drive a stick and tie a bowtie. Small skills to be sure, but really cool things to know. Have multiple mentors.


What do you guys think?
start funding your retirement as early as possible to take advantage of the compounding effect
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#20
I'm 27 this year and so far it's been the most enjoyable time of my life. I believe that once you're more capable of achieving your goals your life becomes more enjoyable, you don't have to have achieved them but just being able to is enough.

I agree with most of the sentiments above but for me the priority is making money since your options are limited without it.

1. Start a side hustle or look for a way to start a business. I did 1 year in B2B SaaS sales and stored enough more to coast for this year and next. Also worked on affiliate marketing as I was working and started to see some low profits the last few months. The elections affected my side hustle so now I'm working on a second revenue stream in addition to my affiliate hustle.

2. Learn an unarmed martial art, an armed martial art, and get a gun license if you can. I did 3 years in boxing which has grown my confidence a lot. This is really useful since I live downtown in a sketchy part of the city. After the epidemic ends I'm going to train in Kali for weapons fighting and get my gun license since it's available in my region.

3. Develop leadership skills. This one is not as necessary compared to the first two but I found that it's had a big impact on me. After putting the lessons I learned from Patrice Oneal into effect my relationships improved a lot. His Black Phillip podcasts were meant to teach men to lead women but you'll learn how to lead in general. At the beginning I did it for me but my girl saw the most benefit cause she ended up happier.

That's about it, I'm also kind of anxious my 20s are ending cause that's time you're never getting back but as long as I keep doing what I want to do then I'm satisfied.
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