The Vietnam Thread
^Pilots.

They make mad bank here and they're primarily expats. Engineers have it pretty good too.

I'd actually say starting an English school would be a good idea as this pandemic has bankrupted the smaller ones so your competition would be a lot less than it was.
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(03-26-2020, 05:01 PM)Blake2 Wrote: A willingness to attain unique skills and qualifications Tongue

Well, in the present that aint much use. 

To keep things realistic, I'd just expect to just teach english assuming you are from an english speaking country.
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Cool. Pilot, engineer, and teacher. I heard high school teachers make good money too (ex. Math, science, history subject teacher at an International School)

Note, I'm researching careers that are possible with a career change in the long term ( ie after 5-10 years to attain the career change by schooling and then some work experience).

English teaching was ok for a few years, but I can't see myself doing that as a career long term.
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^^

If you have a degree you can get a teaching license within 9 months via online cert programs and work at Int. Schools.

If you don't have a degree then you have some choices to make about what to study in school.

Guaranteed jobs abroad - Pilots, Teachers

Possible jobs abroad - Engineers, Compt. Science etc

If it were me, i'd look to be a pilot if at all possible.
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That's a long and expensive path to pilot though.

Pays well now but it's already an 90% automated gig. In the near future there wont be any pilots. Pentagon already bidding on pilot less fighter jets.

I'd get your teaching license as Dash suggests. Doubt robots will be doing that any time soon.
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If he doesn't have a degree, then going pilot will be quicker than getting a full degree.

If he has a degree, he is look at 1 year for a teaching license vs 2 years to get 1,500 flight hours.

Now, it is expensive. But one can pay that off no problem making 8-10k a month.
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I doubt a recently qualified pilot is walking into a lucrative overseas contract right out of school.

I imagine the normal path would be to do a couple years in his home country and get some experience. But I could be wrong.

Point being its a career - not a quick way to make money overseas.

Funny thing I remember running into an Indian pilot for Vietnam Airlines in Observatory. Guy was miserable as hell lol..going off on how racist the Vietnamese were. I guess all the bank he was making couldnt overcome the inner IRT! Big Grin
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(03-28-2020, 11:33 AM)SpecialEd Wrote: I doubt a recently qualified pilot is walking into a lucrative overseas contract right out of school.

I imagine the normal path would be to do a couple years in his home country and get some experience. But I could be wrong.

Point being its a career - not a quick way to make money overseas.

Funny thing I remember running into an Indian pilot for Vietnam Airlines in Observatory. Guy was miserable as hell lol..going off on how racist the Vietnamese were. I guess all the bank he was making couldnt overcome the inner IRT! Big Grin

Pilot seems like a good career, but I heard its tough to land a job overseas (they have their own pilots too). It would certainly require a lot of experience in my own country first.

I think getting an advanced STEM degree is probably a good path. Perhaps teaching. I saw they even have university positions at some new private universities which pay very well and the language of instruction is English.

Also, I see CPA is a great option. Its possible to be an accountant and work remotely.
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(03-28-2020, 03:04 PM)Blake2 Wrote:
(03-28-2020, 11:33 AM)SpecialEd Wrote: I doubt a recently qualified pilot is walking into a lucrative overseas contract right out of school.

I imagine the normal path would be to do a couple years in his home country and get some experience. But I could be wrong.

Point being its a career - not a quick way to make money overseas.

Funny thing I remember running into an Indian pilot for Vietnam Airlines in Observatory. Guy was miserable as hell lol..going off on how racist the Vietnamese were. I guess all the bank he was making couldnt overcome the inner IRT! Big Grin

Pilot seems like a good career, but I heard its tough to land a job overseas (they have their own pilots too). It would certainly require a lot of experience in my own country first.

I think getting an advanced STEM degree is probably a good path. Perhaps teaching. I saw they even have university positions at some new private universities which pay very well and the language of instruction is English.

Also, I see CPA is a great option. Its possible to be an accountant and work remotely.

Just wanted to post an update and a big thank you to the suggestion of getting a teaching certificate and working in an international school (not teaching English).

It looks like a fantastic career abroad.
I didn't mind the teaching part of being an English teacher, in fact I had a blast interacting with students.
What I really hated was the English part (never liked grammar and stuff).

Any more tips in this area would be welcome if you have them.
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I would consider a proper teaching license as the golden ticket to travel and living abroad. Nearly not any country you cant move to and find work.

And many of them you can live comfortably in.

Tips?

Have a degree already?

Do an alternative certification program (TeacherReady)

Don't have a degree already

Hammer out a degree in Education as fast as possible.

What to major / get licensed in?

High School math or science (physics, chemistry) + adding on elementary cert if possible by simply passing the content exam.

Getting Experience

I am a bit torn on this. Id prefer to jump straight abroad at a smaller school and get my 2 years experience needed for better gigs but many schools prefer 2 years in your home country. So a compromise would be move in with your family and bust out those two years saving money with hopefully minimal expenses and travel in the winter and summer.

How to get jobs abroad?

Job fairs and online recruiting / job sites. Connections and word of mouth.
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(03-31-2020, 03:22 PM)Dash Wrote: .....................
Have a degree already?

Do an alternative certification program (TeacherReady)

Don't have a degree already

Hammer out a degree in Education as fast as possible.

There are a few online certification programs out there right now. There's TeacherReady (Florida), and there's one out of Texas. TeacherReady is cheap, but it might be worth considering spending another $5,000 to $8,000 and doing one that gets you an M.Ed. too. That'll get you a salary bump of $4,000 to $7,000 per year. There are also several states that basically just hand out provisional licenses if you say you're going to enroll in teacher training in the next two years. While I'm not up-to-date on which ones are currently doing that, I know Massachusetts was doing this for a while (I believe Maine, too). One of my buddies did the Mass. provisional license and immediately got hired to teach in Taiwan. He later completed some sort of online cert and has been there ever since. PM and I'll send out a couple of programs that I know of. 

There are a few UK schools that do remote iPGCE. That cert is usually good enough for low and mid tier international schools. U of Nottingham is one of the top of my head. I know two guys who've done that. I think U of London, as well. 

(03-31-2020, 03:22 PM)Dash Wrote: What to major / get licensed in? 

High School math or science (physics, chemistry) + adding on elementary cert if possible by simply passing the content exam. 
Math and science licensure is the golden ticket to always having your pick of jobs anywhere on the planet. The director at an international school I worked at in Latin America told me the board's solution to filling open positions in Math and Sciences was to offer STEM teachers large signing bonuses above the set salary schedule that all other grade and subject teachers were paid in accordance with. 

(03-31-2020, 03:22 PM)Dash Wrote: Getting Experience

I am a bit torn on this. Id prefer to jump straight abroad at a smaller school and get my 2 years experience needed for better gigs but many schools prefer 2 years in your home country. So a compromise would be move in with your family and bust out those two years saving money with hopefully minimal expenses and travel in the winter and summer. 

How to get jobs abroad?

Job fairs and online recruiting / job sites. Connections and word of mouth.
There are plenty of schools that will hire you without experience. A lot of the schools that attend the University of Northern Iowa job fair are those types of schools. Some schools have preferences for teachers with home country experience, others try to avoid them, if they have little international experience. Teaching abroad is not at all like teaching in a bureaucratic state school. It can be much more disorganized and "fly by the seat of your pants." Teachers who come in after a decade of being in a state school often have a hard time transitioning. 

As for job sites and headhunters:
TIEOnline.com
ISS-Schrole.com
SearchAssociates.com
SchoolSpring.com
TeachingNomad.com
SeekTeachers.com
Careers.NAIS.org
CarneySandoe.com
https://teachoverseas.uni.edu/fair

There are going to be a ton of open positions whenever this virus hysteria settles down. Lots of people are going to be backing out of obligations they made in November/December out of fear of international travel. Others are not going to have the time to comply with visa paperwork requirements before the start of the school year and just say "fuck it" and walk away from contracts at their new schools. Assuming we don't see some prolonged international shut down (more than another 4 months), there are going to be tons of opportunities for inexperienced people to get their foot in the door. 


I'm going attach this year's (2020-2021) employment package offers for all schools signed up with Search Associates. 

.pdf   (1) Search Associates Packages.pdf (Size: 1.55 MB / Downloads: 21)

.pdf   (2) Search Associates Packages.pdf (Size: 1.49 MB / Downloads: 16)

Since this is the Vietnam thread, here's what Saigon South International School is offering this year's hires:

.pdf   Saigon South Compensation.pdf (Size: 587.45 KB / Downloads: 14)
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5k net. Quite good. Does that include free housing? Or they just give a stipend for housing that is included in the 5k?

On 5k one could easily save 4k a month.

Actually, I just noticed it says MA Step 8. That must be one of the highest step salaries. Masters tier 8.

What is the entry level compensation for a new teacher? I am not even sure a fresh mint teacher can get hired there.

Although, thats one of the best schools in HCMC. So I assume competition would be tough.

I might actually throw my name into some hats for international schools here this summer for the fall.

For me to leave my current job, I'd have to make at least 3k net a month minimum. Even that seems a little depressing as my current job pays 2k a month only working 15 hours a week.
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(04-05-2020, 08:09 AM)Dash Wrote: 5k net. Quite good. Does that include free housing? Or they just give a stipend for housing that is included in the 5k?

On 5k one could easily save 4k a month.

Actually, I just noticed it says MA Step 8. That must be one of the highest step salaries. Masters tier 8.

What is the entry level compensation for a new teacher? I am not even sure a fresh mint teacher can get hired there.

Although, thats one of the best schools in HCMC. So I assume competition would be tough.

I might actually throw my name into some hats for international schools here this summer for the fall.

Look on page 209 of 216 in the second Search Associates PDF. Housing is an additional $850 a month, cash in hand. BA plus 4 years is $48,000 per year. BA entry is probably $42 or $44k, since you tend to get a bump of $1000 or $1500 a year. You'd have very little chance of getting on with this school with zero experience, but you could get on with some of the lesser ones that Search advertises. 

I think International School of Ho Chi Minh (http://www.ishcmc.com) is considered a step down from Saigon South, but they're still paying very well (page 203). Their housing alone is $1390 per month. 

I think you should start doing research for openings at these schools right now. People who were hired 4 months ago are going to start dropping out due to the virus situation.
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With the COL in VN, seems like one could do quite well for them selves here in the IS scene.

Get on at a lower tier school. Net work like crazy with all other IS teachers and admin in the city.

Use social circle connection / network to get the higher positions.
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(03-28-2020, 03:04 PM)Blake2 Wrote:
(03-28-2020, 11:33 AM)SpecialEd Wrote: I doubt a recently qualified pilot is walking into a lucrative overseas contract right out of school.

I imagine the normal path would be to do a couple years in his home country and get some experience. But I could be wrong.

Point being its a career - not a quick way to make money overseas.

Funny thing I remember running into an Indian pilot for Vietnam Airlines in Observatory. Guy was miserable as hell lol..going off on how racist the Vietnamese were. I guess all the bank he was making couldnt overcome the inner IRT! Big Grin

Pilot seems like a good career, but I heard its tough to land a job overseas (they have their own pilots too). It would certainly require a lot of experience in my own country first.

I think getting an advanced STEM degree is probably a good path. Perhaps teaching. I saw they even have university positions at some new private universities which pay very well and the language of instruction is English.

Also, I see CPA is a great option. Its possible to be an accountant and work remotely.

(04-05-2020, 07:44 AM)jdreise Wrote:
(03-31-2020, 03:22 PM)Dash Wrote: .....................
Have a degree already?

Do an alternative certification program (TeacherReady)

Don't have a degree already

Hammer out a degree in Education as fast as possible.

There are a few online certification programs out there right now. There's TeacherReady (Florida), and there's one out of Texas. TeacherReady is cheap, but it might be worth considering spending another $5,000 to $8,000 and doing one that gets you an M.Ed. too. That'll get you a salary bump of $4,000 to $7,000 per year. There are also several states that basically just hand out provisional licenses if you say you're going to enroll in teacher training in the next two years. While I'm not up-to-date on which ones are currently doing that, I know Massachusetts was doing this for a while (I believe Maine, too). One of my buddies did the Mass. provisional license and immediately got hired to teach in Taiwan. He later completed some sort of online cert and has been there ever since. PM and I'll send out a couple of programs that I know of. 

There are a few UK schools that do remote iPGCE. That cert is usually good enough for low and mid tier international schools. U of Nottingham is one of the top of my head. I know two guys who've done that. I think U of London, as well. 

(03-31-2020, 03:22 PM)Dash Wrote: What to major / get licensed in? 

High School math or science (physics, chemistry) + adding on elementary cert if possible by simply passing the content exam. 
Math and science licensure is the golden ticket to always having your pick of jobs anywhere on the planet. The director at an international school I worked at in Latin America told me the board's solution to filling open positions in Math and Sciences was to offer STEM teachers large signing bonuses above the set salary schedule that all other grade and subject teachers were paid in accordance with. 

(03-31-2020, 03:22 PM)Dash Wrote: Getting Experience

I am a bit torn on this. Id prefer to jump straight abroad at a smaller school and get my 2 years experience needed for better gigs but many schools prefer 2 years in your home country. So a compromise would be move in with your family and bust out those two years saving money with hopefully minimal expenses and travel in the winter and summer. 

How to get jobs abroad?

Job fairs and online recruiting / job sites. Connections and word of mouth.
There are plenty of schools that will hire you without experience. A lot of the schools that attend the University of Northern Iowa job fair are those types of schools. Some schools have preferences for teachers with home country experience, others try to avoid them, if they have little international experience. Teaching abroad is not at all like teaching in a bureaucratic state school. It can be much more disorganized and "fly by the seat of your pants." Teachers who come in after a decade of being in a state school often have a hard time transitioning. 

As for job sites and headhunters:
TIEOnline.com
ISS-Schrole.com
SearchAssociates.com
SchoolSpring.com
TeachingNomad.com
SeekTeachers.com
Careers.NAIS.org
CarneySandoe.com
https://teachoverseas.uni.edu/fair

There are going to be a ton of open positions whenever this virus hysteria settles down. Lots of people are going to be backing out of obligations they made in November/December out of fear of international travel. Others are not going to have the time to comply with visa paperwork requirements before the start of the school year and just say "fuck it" and walk away from contracts at their new schools. Assuming we don't see some prolonged international shut down (more than another 4 months), there are going to be tons of opportunities for inexperienced people to get their foot in the door. 

I wouldn't be so sure of that. 

Honestly, it seems like we've reached an end of an era when it comes to teaching/traveling abroad, even shopping without a mask is difficult  Dodgy . It's that same feeling after 9/11 with metal detectors, "bomb-sniffing" dogs, and police with AR-15s everywhere. We aren't going back to normal.

The very small Vietnamese middle (and upper-middle) class is getting destroyed, so it wouldn't surprise me if half the local students drop out when the next tuition bill is due. The douchebags racing Lamborghinis in D2 will be fine, but that's not many people.

The chain English centers will likely close if the shutdown lasts much longer (4 weeks?). Schools have high overhead and receivables come in lumps, so the damage won't be evident until the receivables can't cover the payables.
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Alot depends on how that money has been managed.

My company in China told us proudly in October that all our salaries were paid for the next 6 years.

When Covid broke we kept reminding them of that and so far they have paid most salaries.

In Vietnam the big chains were making over 6 or 7 times the amount of the individual teachers pay on each class. the question is what they did with that money? they didnt pay their teachers during the furlough. so some might do okay with a few adjustments.

I know Apax spent it on relentless expansion and new centres, branding, makeovers plus an opaque upper management that couldnt justify their pay check.

there'll be a few chickens coming home to roost.

It'll be interesting because budgets could get slashed everywhere and yet at the same time the nouveau riche have always been a little opaque as to how they make their money and where they get it from.

It would be an interesting time to make a few predictions.. for the international schools, the chain centres and the mom and pop neighbourhood schools.
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Youd have to be upper class to afford international school here. So I doubt they'll be hurting much.

I do agree its going to be a long while before things go back to normal in VN. The virus will probably linger and come back. So better get used to wearing a mask.

They cant keep the schools shut indefinitely though. And the commie government here cant afford the ramifications of mass unemployment. It's a ticking time bomb much worse than the virus itself.
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(04-09-2020, 06:54 AM)lighter Wrote: There are going to be a ton of open positions whenever this virus hysteria settles down. Lots of people are going to be backing out of obligations they made in November/December out of fear of international travel. Others are not going to have the time to comply with visa paperwork requirements before the start of the school year and just say "fuck it" and walk away from contracts at their new schools. Assuming we don't see some prolonged international shut down (more than another 4 months), there are going to be tons of opportunities for inexperienced people to get their foot in the door. 

I wouldn't be so sure of that. 

Honestly, it seems like we've reached an end of an era when it comes to teaching/traveling abroad, even shopping without a mask is difficult  Dodgy . It's that same feeling after 9/11 with metal detectors, "bomb-sniffing" dogs, and police with AR-15s everywhere. We aren't going back to normal.

The very small Vietnamese middle (and upper-middle) class is getting destroyed, so it wouldn't surprise me if half the local students drop out when the next tuition bill is due. The douchebags racing Lamborghinis in D2 will be fine, but that's not many people.

The chain English centers will likely close if the shutdown lasts much longer (4 weeks?). Schools have high overhead and receivables come in lumps, so the damage won't be evident until the receivables can't cover the payables.

The douchebags racing Lambos are the ones who send their kids to international schools. Them and embassy/consulate and foreign corporate manager families who get the tuition reimbursed by their governments and companies. We're talking USD 20,000 to 50,000 a year for tuition at these places. Funding-wise, I think international schools will be fine. I guess we'll see. 

I think you're probably right about language academies. They're going to suffer for a while. However, there's tons of opportunity in online teaching right now. I've gotten quite a few emails over the last month for online ESL and online subject courses. I'm getting non-stop recruitment spam on LinkedIn.
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I read today that Vietnam is opening up again starting with July 1st. Can any members on the ground confirm this?
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