Are role models needed?
#1
Very often and no matter in which domain it is (pick-up, learning languages, trading, businesses, etc), I see that people always say that role models are helpful OR that they are actually needed.

The question that I have is, why do they think so? I may be a bit 'practical' and I just use information that I deem as useful, but I never try to stick to the same person. During my childhood, teenage years and also right now, I never had a role model. My only goal was just to improve my areas of need/interest. I still remember the day where my class was asked, 'Who is our role model?'. Most guys had some football player (or soccer if you are from the US), some girls had singers and I struggled to find someone. I actually never considered anyone to be a role model for me. Is something wrong with me or are there more folks who think alike?
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#2
(01-15-2020, 10:51 AM)Obermarschall Wrote: Very often and no matter in which domain it is (pick-up, learning languages, trading, businesses, etc), I see that people always say that role models are helpful OR that they are actually needed.

The question that I have is, why do they think so? I may be a bit 'practical' and I just use information that I deem as useful, but I never try to stick to the same person. During my childhood, teenage years and also right now, I never had a role model. My only goal was just to improve my areas of need/interest. I still remember the day where my class was asked, 'Who is our role model?'. Most guys had some football player (or soccer if you are from the US), some girls had singers and I struggled to find someone. I actually never considered anyone to be a role model for me. Is something wrong with me or are there more folks who think alike?

I also never had role models, but I have to recognize that some guys or characters have an influence in the way I walk, talk, dress...eg. Clint Eastwood or James Bond.
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#3
Nothing wrong to have a role model/mentor.
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#4
(01-15-2020, 01:42 PM)blackfriar Wrote: Nothing wrong to have a role model/mentor.

I know, but I am asking myself whether I am wrong to not have a role model or a mentor? I feel like most of the time when it comes to certain things almost everyone has a role model. That's why I feel a bit out of place.
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#5
For many years I had no role models, but as I've gotten more interested in certain hobbies, naturally there are people that I consider role models. I don't think you can force yourself to consider somebody a role models- either you look up to somebody or you don't. Watching footage of my role models doing what they do (most are athletes) is inspiring to me. It helps me come up with goals and strive for things I otherwise wouldn't know was possible.
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#6
Quote:I also never had role models, but I have to recognize that some guys or characters have an influence in the way I walk, talk, dress...eg. Clint Eastwood or James Bond.

Same here. For me, it’s Jesus.
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#7
Since the 1980s, the need for role models has been grossly overstated.  What is actually needed is better FATHERING, because role modeling is superficial when compared with the guidance a good father or father figure can provide.

One reason young men today have no clue about true female nature is because role modeling does not and cannot teach them about that.  Fathers teach about manhood, about wealth, about work ethic, and about the practical nuances of living as a man.  

Role models merely give behavioral cues, how to dress, comport oneself and other things that mean next to nothing if good fathering is absent.

A b*tch-made boy will likely never be put on a functional, masculine path by a mere role model when only good fathering is the missing link.
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#8
(01-19-2020, 07:09 AM)Contrarian Expatriate Wrote: Since the 1980s, the need for role models has been grossly overstated.  What is actually needed is better FATHERING, because role modeling is superficial when compared with the guidance a good father or father figure can provide.

One reason young men today have no clue about true female nature is because role modeling does not and cannot teach them about that.  Fathers teach about manhood, about wealth, about work ethic, and about the practical nuances of living as a man.  

Role models merely give behavioral cues, how to dress, comport oneself and other things that mean next to nothing if good fathering is absent.

A b*tch-made boy will likely never be put on a functional, masculine path by a mere role model when only good fathering is the missing link.

That is a very good post and it reasons very well with me. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
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#9
In order to do something that you have never done or become someone you have never been, a mentor or mentors with the experience doing that something or who embodies that someone is what many need. A father can do this sometimes or perhaps partially, but even he may not have the experience or be the embodiment.

Few can do it without guidance because they cannot see the picture within the frame. Having a mentor, laser focus and exercising large quantities of effort can turn your life into something extraordinary.

Also, most people have a limited story about themselves that they believe, a father and a mentor often sees much more and helps you bridge those limited beliefs into something less limited or much greater. They often help you to believe in yourself which is the root of confidence and then success to do what you are capable of doing.
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#10
(01-21-2020, 04:01 AM)P.T. Wrote: In order to do something that you have never done or become someone you have never been, a mentor or mentors with the experience doing that something or who embodies that someone is what many need.

I deleted my previous post because it addressed this point from an obtuse angle. But now that you've brought it up again I will mention it again: Make sure your mentor is not a bullshitter and actually has done what they are preaching, not just talking about and selling you a product... or worse, using you as THE product to make money off your investment(s) in their con game.

Using you as a paycheck is a common game when guys are trying to cash out of a dried up field, they switch to being a teacher/mentor figure and use their hey-day stories as "proof", which in many cases no longer applies due to big changes that have happened in whatever field they are in or were part of.

Do your due diligence.
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#11
[Image: cd5cc8f34ffe61c6490afac38005cdf7.jpg]
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#12
To think of a mentor only to get laid is short sighted. Sex is part of our biology, but to chase it like it is pinnacle of male existence or be a slave to it, or to use it against others like it is the summit of existence cheapens what men can do and become. Rather think in terms of fulfilling your purpose in life or completing something that goes toward accomplishing some greater mission or series of goals in your life.

Hopefully other men in your life whom you trust like a father, uncle or grandfather has put a circle of men in your life (from teachers, to coaches, to tradesmen, to men at the workplaces and so on) and someone in this circle, put in place by those who have your best interest in mind, will become a mentor or point you to him or them. Trying to find one randomly in the world or on the internet is not the way to go.
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#13
i agree what was said above by CE about young boys needing a father to teach them about women/girls and everything to expect from them, i guess thats why we see solo mothers being lauded as heroes in mainstream culture, when we all know they are sending lambs to slaughter when these boys finally grow up and stumble blindly into every trap and trick in the book.
also think when i guy is younger, say 12-15 he needs teaching discipline to prepare him for his 18+ years when he is an adult and acting like a girl when told no or someone hurts his feelings is a big no no.
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#14
(01-15-2020, 04:13 PM)Obermarschall Wrote:
(01-15-2020, 01:42 PM)blackfriar Wrote: Nothing wrong to have a role model/mentor.

I know, but I am asking myself whether I am wrong to not have a role model or a mentor? I feel like most of the time when it comes to certain things almost everyone has a role model. That's why I feel a bit out of place.

Seems to me that the whole matter of role model(s) depends on the skills that you are learning and whether you make some of your decisions by staying in the same social circles (same geographical area) or building upon social circles that you have developed through your youth, which might be fairly restrictive, depending on where you grow up, and traveling (which traveling seems to be a kind of  inclination of members of this forum may involve more breaking of social circles than guys who choose not to travel).

Sure, in your early days, your role models are going to be guys like your father, uncles, cousins, brothers or some other guys in your life, but if you travel a lot in your youth, you might not have as much of an extended family or even constant circle of guy friends

In any event, it seems likely that along the way, you are likely going to take different paths from those guys in terms of profession and location or might not even consider them to be good role models in all regards (even though they might be good role models in some regards) and even having to find your own way in making some decisions because there might not be any guy that is exactly in your same spot or speciality or kind of life that you want to lead that is close enough in your circle, which is especially true if you take paths that are quite different from the guys around you.  

I have frequently found when I have been starting a new skill, my understanding might be so limited that I can learn the basics from anyone, as long as they are not teaching me bad habits, but as I get into the more advanced learning in any particular skill area, then I might need to learn from guys that have higher skill levels - that is if I were to want to aspire to the higher level of skills, and sometimes hoping that I have not learned too many bad habits along the way, which also can be possible.

So, even if we have role models along the way, sometimes we also have to discern if the role model is really teaching us good habits or are we learning some bad habits and skills that make us not as good at the thing that we are trying to learn.

I recognize that my answer might be a bit all over the place, and maybe I have had some similar struggles with role models in my life over the years, and I feel that I have had a lot of role models but frequently, I do not just think of one or two role models and sometimes later in life I realize that I learned some bad habits, but I don't necessarily regret that I had followed some advice that might not have been so good.  In any event, over the years, sometimes role models have been easier to find than other times because some activities (or skills that you want to learn) are more social than other skills, whether work or school or even some hobbies/sports.
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