New York City vs Los Angeles
#1
Sup Swoopers,
 
I’ve lived half my life in LA and the other in NY, and wanted to provide a comparison for those of you interested in either. Or maybe you’re trying to decide where to live. Either way, here’s the write-up nobody asked for lol.
 
Some quick background on me: Born and raised in LA, left for college in NYC at 18 and have been here ever since (now early 30s). I go back home frequently for vacations and holidays and think I have a pretty good lay of the land in both cities.
 
If you just want the tl;dr version, here it is. Detailed explanations follow them below.

Quote:Summary

  • Earning Potential - NY
  • Cost of Living - LA
  • Commuting - Depends
  • Dating - NY
  • People/Culture - Depends
  • Activities - LA
  • Nightlife - NY
  • Weather – LA
Overall – It’s a tie, so you’ll probably end up deciding based on your priorities and/or deal-breakers. In general, NYC works best for the go-getters who don’t mind burning the candle at both ends, aka the Work-Hard/Play-Hard crew. You thrive on competition and want to squeeze life for all its worth, and you don’t mind sacrificing sleep or paying a premium to do it. LA is better if you prefer to have more balance in your life, with better weather and access to outdoor activities, although you’ll have to accept the general phoniness of people around you, and will always feel like you’re being underpaid.
 
Before we begin, just know that there are always going to be exceptions/caveats. I’ll try to cover as many of them as possible.
 
Earning Potential: NYC (but it depends on your industry)

It’s important to consider mid-career salaries rather than entry-level, since entry level salaries (as well as salaries 20 years in) can be skewed for all sorts of reasons. In NYC, if you can make it through the meat-grinder of the first few years on your (likely) poverty wages, your salary progressions can become quite good, since the ceiling can be really really high…much higher than in LA. They do have a lower cost of living in LA, sure, but that’s also reflected in the lower salaries and lower overall ceilings/room for growth.
 
I know this from personal experience, and especially since I have the benefit of comparing where I am now to my friends who stayed in LA. We are all mid-career now, ~10 years in, so it’s a good point in life to make these kinds of comparisons. 
 
*CAVEAT: Your industry matters a lot. Techies should head to SF (yes, even with the insane cost of living) while oil/gas should head to Houston if all they cared about was maximizing their earning potential. But in a pound-for-pound comparison between LA and NY, your salary will grow better in NYC. All of my NYC friends (myself included) lived on poverty wages in our early to mid-20s. Our LA counterparts were pretty much on parity with us, but had the benefit of cheaper living costs. It wasn’t until maybe ~5 years in that we were getting the meaningful bumps in pay/promotions that finally made NYC livable (and by extension, put most of us in the top 75-90% of US salaries before age 30). That was about when the situation began favoring us in NY. And after 10 years, it was really no contest.
 
Cost of Living: LA (but that’s reflected in the lower overall salaries)

*CAVEAT: Obviously CoL can differ even between neighborhoods within a city. It can depend a lot on your own money habits too. It’s hard to make a direct apples-to-apples comparison, but for all intents and purposes, the per-square-foot price of NYC is higher than LA’s.
 
People may be surprised to hear that it is actually possible to make any budget work in either city. Seriously. You can make 30k/year in NYC and there WILL be housing options for you as well. They will suck hard donkey dick, possibly requiring hours-long commutes, but it always surprises me how much some NYers can do with so little.
 
I live in Brooklyn now (not far from Barclays) paying around 2k/month all-up to share an apt with 2 other dudes. It can feel a little bit claustrophobic at times (maybe mostly cuz of the GFs being over all the time). But I saw an awesome spacious high-rise studio in Downtown LA on Zillow going for just under 2k/month and it included rooftop swimming pool, gym, parking, and various other amenities. I was a bit jelly, can’t lie. But I also don't think I'd be getting the salary I get now if I moved to LA.
 
Commuting: Depends (pick your poison) 

I spent my 20s in a constant drunken stupor. Having a metro was a godsend then. Now in my 30s, I’m sober (health/productivity reasons). And while I feel a million times better, I also notice things more. Like the dreary winter weather. And the homeless/crazy people sharing space with me in the metro now. And it makes me think, “I’d rather sit in traffic in the comfort of my own space in my car.”
 
So I think this really depends on what you are willing to put up with.
 
Dating: NYC (hands down) 

LA County is literally organized to promote isolation and loneliness, making it difficult (outside of a few areas) to have the kind of random chance encounters with members of the opposite sex in ways that wouldn’t come off creepy or weird.
 
It is, in essence, just a collection of suburbs and their being so spread out doesn’t do you any favors logistically. Combine that with a general cliquey and standoff-ish attitude and you get a pretty shitty dating environment that encourages high dating app use, loads of flakiness, and a situation that is mostly in the female’s control. (I think by this point, we’ve all come to accept that dating apps circa 2019 are complete garbage.)
 
NYC, on the other hand, is about as close as you can get to poosy paradise on Earth, no exaggeration. Not only are there literally millions of young women to select from, the sheer variety and constant influx of new girls means you are spoiled for options.
 
I’ve never been a fan of dating apps, especially in NYC. You can go out any night you’re feeling lonely and there’s almost 100% guarantee you’ll at least run into a girl who’s digging your style. Whether you convert is up to you, but the sheer opportunities are truly endless here. It doesn’t even matter whether you’re her “type” anyway since 99% of women’s types involve a guy who’s just into them at all/paying them attention and chatting them up. But when you exist in such close quarters with so many different people each day, you’re bound to lock eyes with at least one or two who at least found something interesting about you. It's all really just a numbers game, after all.
 
*CAVEAT: NYC is a “go-getter” city in every sense of the word. If you want to get more pay at work, it’s not enough to do a good job and just “hope they notice.” You still need to fight for it and know how to really sell yourself. Dating here is no different. It doesn’t matter if you’re a young good-looking millionaire, girls still prize action-oriented personalities. Which is good news. As long as your hygiene is adequate and you’re not afraid to talk to girls, being of average looks really doesn’t hurt your chances here (as it would in LA).
 
People/Culture: Depends (though I prefer NYers)

I grew up in LA, which means I know how to “speak” LA. That means we are superficially nice to one another and agree with whatever we say for the sake of avoiding potential conflict. We will also make plans with others that we will probably not keep/flake out on. Our friend circles are complete by the time we graduate high school or college and we don’t accept anybody else after that.
 
NYers, on the other hand, will be blunt, no-bs, and straight to the point with you. They don’t care about hurting your little feelings. However, I’ve always suspected that they’re mostly nice peeps deep down who are willing to lend a hand if you ask for it. Their dynamic reminds me of military units, where everybody is always clowning on one another but will have each others backs in a pinch. I also think NYers generally work harder, are smarter, and do more impressive shit than LA folk.
 
But the culture of NY definitely reminds you (constantly) that you are just another rat in the race for more of that almighty dollar. You’re a hamster that has to run ever faster on the wheel because you feel like you’ll get left behind if you don’t. And you quickly learn that you are extremely replaceable because there’s always someone hungrier than you willing to work for less. It’s a lot of pressure, no doubt.
 
So this depends on what kind of environment best suits you and/or gets the best out of you. I think that while I do enjoy the more laid-back environment of LA, I am definitely at my most productive/best here in NYC. But this really depends on the individual.
 
Activities: LA 

10 years ago, I would have said NYC without question. At that time, my favorite hobby was probably binge-drinking. I used to tell myself that I had varied interests back then, since I did go to lots of live music events, jazz shows, baseball games, raves, and other social activities. But what was really happening was that the real activity I was showing up for was the heavy drinking…the jazz and the baseball and whatnot kind of just provided a different backdrop.
 
Since I went sober, I’ve been getting more into lifting weights, eating clean, getting lots of healthy sleep, hiking/camping, surfing, and actual outdoors stuff…not just drinking outdoors. It’s changed my preference from NYC to LA. So much of NYC is run on alcohol that I’m hard-pressed to think of a lot of activities that don’t involve drinking here.
 
Nightlife: NYC (hands down) 

I don’t think anyone will dispute this. No lame 2am last calls, true 24/7 city, tons of fun places, no worries about drunk driving.
 
Weather: LA

I used to think LA weather was just…boring, since it was always the same shit every day. It wasn’t until I moved to NYC that I found myself excitedly looking forward to seasonal changes. When the spring rains stopped, we were all very excited for all the rooftop bars to open again for the summer. Then, when the leaves fell, we’d go do things like apple picking or pumpkin carving, trying different beers to match the different foods for each season. 
 
But the winters do get dark, depressing, and dreary and makes you hate being in NYC. At least until spring/summer comes around, at which point you magically forget how shitty that winter just was.
 
For as boring as LA’s weather can seem, it’s a really nice year-round temperate climate that lets you enjoy the outdoors as much as you want, while NYers have no choice but to lock themselves indoors for several months on end.
 
Thanks for reading. Share your thoughts!
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#2
I just got accepted for a job offer in NYC, it's outside the city in the Mt Vernon area. Can anyone recommend some areas to look for with not outrageous rent that aren't completely ghetto? I'm interested in Queens and the Bronx for an easy commute.
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#3
If you were to live only half the year (warmer months), would you say it would win hands down?
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#4
(11-08-2019, 03:43 PM)20Nation Wrote: If you were to live only half the year (warmer months), would you say it would win hands down?

Definitively YES. May to October.
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#5
Neither?

NYC is too expensive for the average young professional earning less than 200k. If you have a trust fund, or you're in your 20s, maybe. By the time you reach 30 though, do you really want roommates? Do you want to make all those sacrifices just to live in a place? At some point you want to save money and have a place for yourself. I've been cockblocked many the time by the roommate situation. I disagree that NYC makes up for it with salary, it doesn't in most fields. Only a few fields benefit slightly from NYC salaries, like Finance. Don't underestimate the cost of living...Not sure what field you are in, but the best salaries for tech are not in San Francisco, they're in Texas - when you adjust for the cost of living.

Living near the Barclay Center with roommates is tantamount to living in Baltimore, with none of the advantages (I'd rather live in Baltimore actually). I can vouch, I lived in both places and I only lasted a few months in Brooklyn before I high tailed it to Manhattan where my quality of life dropped even more despite being generally more happy with the location/girls. I'm 36 and I would not move back to NYC unless I could afford a decent place by myself (no roommates) in Manhattan somewhere in the vicinity of Soho, Union Square, East Village, LES, or West Village. It's not worth it to me otherwise. An okay apartment in one of the ideal spots by yourself is something like 3.5 - 4k per month. How much do you want to spend on housing just to live near a bunch of bars?

Your lifestyle can be had in a city that's more affordable and easier to deal with, that's what I'm basically saying. There's nothing special about Brooklyn chicks. Yes, the weather sucks. Downtown LA is shitty and LA in general is a logistical nightmare.

I don't have much use for 4am or 5am closing times in my Mid-30s, it's not a draw for me. If i'm going to pull a mostly sober girl, it's going to be before 2am anyway.

RE: living in the Bronx/Queens...
I personally would back out of a job offer if it required me living and working anywhere but Manhattan and even in Manhattan, my commute was 45 minutes on the subway, which is ironically longer than it is in Dallas where I am now. You can get a better/more affordable urban experience than Bronx/Queens/Brooklyn in a bunch of nearby cities including Philly, Baltimore, or DC.
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#6
What's wrong with the Barclay Centre? Pretty middle class black area, seems to me. And you can't really get any closer to Manhattan in Brooklyn than that.
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#7
(11-08-2019, 08:44 PM)churros Wrote: What's wrong with the Barclay Centre? Pretty middle class black area, seems to me. And you can't really get any closer to Manhattan in Brooklyn than that.

I agree with you that it's closer to Manhattan than other places, but I never underestimate the logistical hassle of crossing the river to get onto the Island with how crappy the Subway has been in the past few years. If I live in Brooklyn, I'm mostly hanging out in Brooklyn... Most Manhattan people don't want to cross the river for a date, that's just how it is...

Nothing wrong with Barclay's on the face of it, but when you've lived in other Northeast cities like I have it doesn't feel any different than Philly or Baltimore or anywhere else, and I'm paying a lot more for it. The bar scene in those parts is pretty sleepy.
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#8
(11-08-2019, 07:21 PM)fullthrottle Wrote: Neither?

NYC is too expensive for the average young professional earning less than 200k. If you have a trust fund, or you're in your 20s, maybe. By the time you reach 30 though, do you really want roommates? Do you want to make all those sacrifices just to live in a place? At some point you want to save money and have a place for yourself. I've been cockblocked many the time by the roommate situation. I disagree that NYC makes up for it with salary, it doesn't in most fields. Only a few fields benefit slightly from NYC salaries, like Finance. Don't underestimate the cost of living...Not sure what field you are in, but the best salaries for tech are not in San Francisco, they're in Texas - when you adjust for the cost of living.

Living near the Barclay Center with roommates is tantamount to living in Baltimore, with none of the advantages (I'd rather live in Baltimore actually). I can vouch, I lived in both places and I only lasted a few months in Brooklyn before I high tailed it to Manhattan where my quality of life dropped even more despite being generally more happy with the location/girls. I'm 36 and I would not move back to NYC unless I could afford a decent place by myself (no roommates) in Manhattan somewhere in the vicinity of Soho, Union Square, East Village, LES, or West Village. It's not worth it to me otherwise. An okay apartment in one of the ideal spots by yourself is something like 3.5 - 4k per month. How much do you want to spend on housing just to live near a bunch of bars?

Your lifestyle can be had in a city that's more affordable and easier to deal with, that's what I'm basically saying. There's nothing special about Brooklyn chicks. Yes, the weather sucks. Downtown LA is shitty and LA in general is a logistical nightmare.

I don't have much use for 4am or 5am closing times in my Mid-30s, it's not a draw for me. If i'm going to pull a mostly sober girl, it's going to be before 2am anyway.

RE: living in the Bronx/Queens...
I personally would back out of a job offer if it required me living and working anywhere but Manhattan and even in Manhattan, my commute was 45 minutes on the subway, which is ironically longer than it is in Dallas where I am now. You can get a better/more affordable urban experience than Bronx/Queens/Brooklyn in a bunch of nearby cities including Philly, Baltimore, or DC.

Lol, I actually entirely agree with you...

A lot of what made NYC fun was just being young and dumb (and broke...even that kinda had its charms). But if you don't drink and party much anymore or make enough money, what's the point of living in the city with the world's best nightlife, right? Kinda loses the only real edges it had. 

What's keeping me here at the moment is 
  • My current salary (~90k+bonuses) drops to around 60k in LA for the same job. It'll be hard to get what I get anywhere else in the US. But then again, I haven't checked out every other city. It's just that NYC and LA are the #1 and #2 largest cities and metros of the US, so they're probably the best starting points. Plus, people in my industry are fighting to get into NYC, which means I'm right where I need to be anyway.
  • My mgmt team/owners really want to see me succeed...like I said above regarding People/Culture, NYers may seem tough and walled-off upfront but if you show you care and want it, they'll go out of their way to help you out. Since a year ago, I could tell I was being groomed for the 150k+ exec/upper mgmt jobs, since I'm being involved in a lot of pretty key decision making. To be honest, I don't think LA bosses give a shit about your career progression. A bit harsh, I know. But having grown up there, I really don't think I would trust them to go this far to help a young ambitious cat out. There's a bit of this "What, this punk thinks he knows better than me?" kinda attitude. In NYC, however, it's more "Alright, so this kid's got some potential...let's see how far he can go."
  • The girls. I think both quantity and quality drop off precipitously in any city outside of NYC. It's disingenuous to say there's nothing special about Brooklyn girls when there are literally millions of them here and you haven't met them all yet. I would even guarantee with 99% certainty that there are girls here who are just your type that you will cross paths with on a daily basis. I don't know Texas, but can you really get those awesome random chance encounters that frequently just by going about your day there?
There's no perfect place. I think both NYC and LA are great for different reasons. My HS buddy in LA would never hack it in NYC, so he made the right call staying in LA. He's into yoga and surfing and spiritualism and doesn't want to work any more than he absolutely has to. But the overall slower pace of LA combined with the lack of professional development and difficulty meeting girls would have driven me crazy.

So he and I both made the right call by looking inward at our priorities (and non-negotiables) and making decisions based on that.
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#9
(11-08-2019, 10:41 PM)Coast2Coast Wrote: What's keeping me here at the moment is 
  • My current salary (~90k+bonuses) drops to around 60k in LA for the same job. It'll be hard to get what I get anywhere else in the US. But then again, I haven't checked out every other city. It's just that NYC and LA are the #1 and #2 largest cities and metros of the US, so they're probably the best starting points. Plus, people in my industry are fighting to get into NYC, which means I'm right where I need to be anyway.

Run those numbers in a cost of living calculator. 60k in LA is about 90k in NYC - depending on which calculator you use, so your friends aren't really earning that much less than you. Also, I don't exactly know what you do for a living, but the assumption based purely on "#1 and #2 largest cities and metros" is not a good one. Dallas pays better for a large number of jobs, even in terms of raw salary as do other cities like Atlanta or Austin or even Denver. I'm a Software Engineer in Dallas and I'd make about the same in NYC, where I should be making close to 90-100k more to account for cost of living difference. Generally, if people in your industry are fighting to get into a place, that place is going to pay less! Nobodies fighting to move to Dallas, lol. I get money thrown at me to stay here.

You should be more cynical about upper management promises as they can easily renig and don't get all excited about "being groomed". I've had similar promises thrown my way over the years. You can definitely find higher paying work elsewhere. Personally, I wouldn't live in LA on 60k any more than I'd live in NYC for 90k. After the taxes, you're getting robbed! I actually made less in raw salary in TX when I moved here but my paycheck was bigger than NYC because there's no state or city income tax! Your equivalent salary here in Dallas is 40k. I couldn't even live well here making that. That's basically entry level college grad wages. Most all the 23-25 year olds I work with, who are not even engineers, make 60-70k.

I've lived in a lot of places, I can give you the low down on some cities from living and dating there and others by visiting. For example, dating in NYC was the worst of any of the cities I've lived in, even Dallas where a lot of girls are not only better looking, but more conservative both in appearance and personality with less tattoos, more makeup, bigger breasts, better bodies. If you're sheerly comparing places based on how hot the girls are, then Miami wins - sorry. NYC chicks with their weird clothing styles, paleness, manly attitudes, and overall feminist beliefs doesn't win a contest for me - and Brooklyn is pretty much the epicenter of that shit. You don't have to tell me, I lived there. Where NYC wins is just sheer quantity of girls to fornicate with, if that's your bag. Take a few trips to Vegas a year and you'll have the same thing.

Chance encounters in Dallas? I've had them, but yeah NYC is good for that. I'm not going to try to sell you on Dallas, I'm actually trying to get out of here, but I ain't moving back to NYC. There are a lot of great places. Chicago is a great city! Miami and Tampa and actually, Houston is pretty dope and has the right demographics (latinas and asians), the chicks are so friendly. Atlanta is NYC South - and you'll find a lot of cute Southern Belle's there, and the ratios are the best.
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#10
Nice datasheet. I say neither because both are expensive and I hate nightlife and traffic but that's just my opinion.

Depends on where you want to fly out as well. LA is close to Vegas, Hawaii, and Southeast Asia. NYC gives you access to South America, Florida, and Europe.
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#11
Good stuff dude. I just made the move from LA to NYC back in summer, loving it so far. The work grind is real though.
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#12
(11-15-2019, 12:03 AM)SugarSMACK Wrote:
(11-08-2019, 07:21 PM)fullthrottle Wrote: Not sure what field you are in, but the best salaries for tech are not in San Francisco, they're in Texas - when you adjust for the cost of living.

Sure, if you're some generic run-of-the-mill tech guy, Texas would probably be better than SF. However, if you're above avg and ambitious, SF would probably be better, it’s all connections and who you are around. You have a ton of idiots in the SF bay area until you get into the academic circles in particular areas of financial or AI or something that brings out the introverts. Then it's game over man. The San Jose Metropolitan Area has the most millionaires and the most billionaires in the United States per capita.

Okay, I'm below average and not ambitious now. Thanks!
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#13
90K in NYC is literally being poor, apply for food stamps bro. You should be able to make 90K anywhere easily, if you don't it says more about you. I have friends in NYC making 250K+ and still struggle to get by.

The living situation about having other guys GFs over sounds like NYC really looks like that show Freinds. Personally, living with other people is already going to be a clusterfuck because you're sharing space....and now you want to add guests to the floorplan? Fuck that, that's some poor people shit right there. Crowded af.
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#14
  • The girls. I think both quantity and quality drop off precipitously in any city outside of NYC. 
Sometimes I think the quality part of NYC is overblown. I have been there enough and was just there a few months ago. I've in 1 Oak, I was in some trendy club in Chelsea starts with J a few months ago. While the venues are fun and the girls get dressed up what I consistently see from guys that go nuts over NYC girls... Last time I was there we wandered around Lower East Side for an hour or so and there were some roaming packs of hot girls though, but for the size of the city what was in the bars sucked badly. We had to leave to Chelsea.

In Manhattan I have been impressed when I was out, the few times out in Williamsburg/Brooklyn day or night I was never impressed with the quality of girls. Definitely not better than hotspots in California or Texas, or some college towns. Probably at the level of Chicago quality wise if not worse in my tastes.

  1. They gives girls a higher sexiness factor due to pedigree (from London, from Paris, from Spain, attended some boarding school, Ivy league)
  2. They give girls higher sexiness factor due to their dress styles which can be more trendy, a tiny more edgy, whatever.
  3. The girls have family $ and these guys want in on it.
  4. These guys pay so much in rent to live in a box, work so hard, they have to justify it
In reality under that lot of these girls are just 6.5-7.0 that are thin with some attitude. If you brought them to a beach or somewhere they couldn't hide with style, makeup, pedigree, or dark venues their chic, sexy factor disappears into thin air.

In fact on a body level, on average I would give Chicago girls a higher score for having tits, hips, and ass more often. Though they often come with the washed out skins tones and unremarkable Irish/German/English/Polish mixed faces that are so common there.

Quantity walking around though I do agree wholeheartedly NYC wins. Also if I was a guy over 50 with $ and in America I'd probably still want to be in Miami, but NY could be a close second for dating prospects at that age.

In Bogota and to a lesser extent Medellin I was going around town walking or in Ubers and sometimes be literally biting my fist at seeing the bodies of some of the girls. I never do that in NYC, ever. In California on the beach I do fairly often.

Haven't been to Miami but I am guessing fist biting factor is through the roof.
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#15
Great thread. I got a buddy of mine who I hung around with a lot while I was in Asia living in NYC now. Recently he took a trip to EE, Budapest for the first time during the summer and told me that what he saw in the streets there blew NYC away.

I was kind of disappointed because I went all over Eastern Europe, and I thought Budapest street talent was overall low in comparison to its neighbors like Poland and especially Serbia.

After living abroad for so long, I'm just not psyched about any particular city in the US in terms of girls. I guess I'm just gonna work hard here and build that F-YOU money.
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#16
Quote:In fact on a body level, on average I would give Chicago girls a higher score for having tits, hips, and ass more often. Though they often come with the washed out skins tones and unremarkable Irish/German/English/Polish mixed faces that are so common there.


Yeah, Manhattan chicks tend to anorexercise. The city makes you highly anxious. My longest girlfriend in NYC was 2 months and she had a celebrity personal trainer, worked out for like 2 hours every day. She was basically ripped, but was an emotionally broken human being... I much prefer some curves to a girl who has zero bodyfat. The fact I wouldn't get up at 6am and workout for 2 hours every day precipitated our breakup. I've been called pretty type A, but this one took the cake... I just wanted her to chill out and enjoy our mornings.

The Chicago mentality is less superficial and it leads to less quality, but the personalities make up for it. I'm the type of guy who would rather date a 7 with a great personality that aims to please me than a 8.5 or 9 with a shit personality who is a pain in the ass.

Some guys want "the best" at any cost, it's a game of keeping up with the joneses and they go into incredible amounts of debt to have a certain lifestyle. The only way to win that game is not to play. You'll never win that game in NYC.
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#17
Good thread and I'd like to pop my cherry here.

I've lived in NYC for a decent amount of time.  When I first got here I was making 60k.  Had my own studio in a trendy, but not top notch neighborhood.  Half my take home went to rent.  It would have been a lot better of an experience if I had a crew of friends to go out with.  The money wasn't awful, obviously you cook most of your meals, spend $20 or so when you go out, but all in all not a "poor" existence, especially for my young age.  I was comfortable, safe, and healthy in this type of existence.

I now make in the 200k's, with most of it being variable comp.  So one month it could be 10k and another could be 70k.  I've had pretty sweet apartments in incredible-with roommates though.  (Roommates shouldn't be an embarassing situation if you're in your 20's (or even 30s in NYC/SF).  You just have to play it off as they're your homies, you go out together a lot, etc.  Almost any girl you're talking to has roommates as well.)  I'll get my own studio soon, in a high rise doorman building for about $3k monthly.  

I also get a summer house every year.  A regular one, not a baller Wolf of Wall Street one. This is a must if you live in NYC. Most of the high value people are in the Hamptons/Montauk or maybe the Jersey Shore. The city is pretty unpleasant in the summer. Hot, humid, and smelly.  

I have a car in the city, an expensive luxury sedan, that I use for work & personal travel.  I don't spend a lot when I go out, maybe $30-80.  I see regular guys dropping $3-500 on a night out.  How do they justify that?  I spend a similar $30-80 on women for their dates, nothing too crazy.  Clothes shopping every once in a while. 

I get hit with a lot of unexpected costs: traffic violations, rental fees, parking tickets, fender benders, cab rides that take forever.  I also spend $12k yearly on travel, mostly international trips

I don't save that much money relative to my income.  My 401k get 6% matched and I DCA 1-2k monthly into cryptocurrency.  

NYC is a super fun place to live if you're relatively young, unattached, have my income, and my relatively laid back work schedule.  It also helps a lot to have a crew of friends that like to go out and pregame.  Roommates are helpful for that.  I don't live like a total baller but women can tell that I do well income wise and have a good lifestyle.  Don't listen to so much hoopla about not being able to enjoy it if you don't make a ton of money.  I've seen guys have a blast at $100k/yearly and even less.  However, in order to have fun and get ahead financially?  You will probably need to be at around 200k before you can save tens of thousands per year.

Meeting people is not that easy if you are a guy. If you don't have them a work, you're usually SOL unless you make friends at a gym/activity. A lot of chodes do things like kickball/softball, its a mixed bag. There are a lot of social climbers in NYC who will try to buddy up to you if you have social value. Guys are ultra competitive with women, entrance into nightclubs, business connections, etc. Most guys don't even have the time to make friends unless they see you as a come-up. Guys in finance (I'd estimate 30% of college educated bachelors) work 60+ hours a week and most guys in general don't want to deal with investing in a new friend.

Dating wise: I do well but not phenomenal, usually around 20 girls per year, give or take depending on the year.  Quality ranges from 6-8 and has been averaging better per year.  Mostly apps and occasional night game.  I'm pretty openly conservative and Christian and I haven't had many problems.  Women are a diverse breed here, I typically don't attract any hardcore feminists or liberals.  A lot of them are international, I've dated women from all over the globe. Nothing has lasted me over a few months here, and getting to a month is kind of rare in itself.

With NYC women you have a lot to compete with.  All of the men in NYC, all of NYCs fun activities, her job, her friends, dating apps, etc.  Most women won't stop what they're doing for you and it gets hard to get relationships off the ground.  Getting ghosted after 1-3 fucks is a pretty common occurrence for me and (I think) a lot of NYC guys.  Swapping fluids doesn't mean shit, she could meet a hotter guy in 15 minutes.  

I'd say that I'm probably happy that I had this NYC experience.  It was something that people from all over the world watch on TV, dream about.  Anytime I went abroad, showing them my life (in pictures) in NYC gave me major points.  It's the biggest status boost that you can get.  I haven't saved a ton of money but I have enough to downpay for a home.  The women have been less than memorable.  I haven't gotten that feminine experience for a long time in NYC.  Women are hard, jaded, they've been played a million times by a ton of Chads. They're focused on their careers, education, and parties with friends. It's not rare to see 30+ women single, and most of them embrace it.

I regret not starting my career in Dallas or Nashville and seeing whether I fit in with the cities culture better.  I would never consider any city in the US as a more fun, cultural, historic experience as NYC.  But if you're looking for hot women and cool people on the cheap and warm, I'd look somewhere else.
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#18
(11-17-2019, 07:08 PM)fullthrottle Wrote: Yeah, Manhattan chicks tend to anorexercise. The city makes you highly anxious. My longest girlfriend in NYC was 2 months and she had a celebrity personal trainer, worked out for like 2 hours every day. She was basically ripped, but was an emotionally broken human being... I much prefer some curves to a girl who has zero bodyfat. The fact I wouldn't get up at 6am and workout for 2 hours every day precipitated our breakup. I've been called pretty type A, but this one took the cake... I just wanted her to chill out and enjoy our mornings.

Holy hot dog Batman...
Been trying for ages to describe this particular phenomenon to outsiders, but I think you nailed it. 
I used to say NYC women remind me of Claire Underwood. Both in bodytype and demeanor.

(11-20-2019, 05:43 AM)Graft Wrote: NYC is a super fun place to live if you're relatively young, unattached, have my income, and my relatively laid back work schedule...

Meeting people is not that easy if you are a guy...

With NYC women you have a lot to compete with...

Women are hard, jaded, they've been played a million times by a ton of Chads.  They're focused on their careers, education, and parties with friends. It's not rare to see 30+ women single, and most of them embrace it.  

I regret not starting my career in Dallas or Nashville and seeing whether I fit in with the cities culture better.  I would never consider any city in the US as a more fun, cultural, historic experience as NYC. But if you're looking for hot women and cool people on the cheap and warm, I'd look somewhere else.

Really well-written, nice touch qualifying your experiences with relevant caveats. 

I don't know your thoughts on this...but judging by the way things have been getting more expensive, I think that bar (above which you can start to live comfortably) will just continue to rise over the coming years.


When I first moved to NYC, a 10K/month salary was really really comfortable. (That was more than a decade ago though.) Nowadays, that bar seems to be at around 15-20K/month. And in another decade, perhaps 25-30K/month?

The goalposts keep moving.
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#19
(11-20-2019, 05:43 PM)Coast2Coast Wrote:
(11-17-2019, 07:08 PM)fullthrottle Wrote: Yeah, Manhattan chicks tend to anorexercise. The city makes you highly anxious. My longest girlfriend in NYC was 2 months and she had a celebrity personal trainer, worked out for like 2 hours every day. She was basically ripped, but was an emotionally broken human being... I much prefer some curves to a girl who has zero bodyfat. The fact I wouldn't get up at 6am and workout for 2 hours every day precipitated our breakup. I've been called pretty type A, but this one took the cake... I just wanted her to chill out and enjoy our mornings.

Holy hot dog Batman...
Been trying for ages to describe this particular phenomenon to outsiders, but I think you nailed it. 
I used to say NYC women remind me of Claire Underwood. Both in bodytype and demeanor.

(11-20-2019, 05:43 AM)Graft Wrote: NYC is a super fun place to live if you're relatively young, unattached, have my income, and my relatively laid back work schedule...

Meeting people is not that easy if you are a guy...

With NYC women you have a lot to compete with...

Women are hard, jaded, they've been played a million times by a ton of Chads.  They're focused on their careers, education, and parties with friends. It's not rare to see 30+ women single, and most of them embrace it.  

I regret not starting my career in Dallas or Nashville and seeing whether I fit in with the cities culture better.  I would never consider any city in the US as a more fun, cultural, historic experience as NYC. But if you're looking for hot women and cool people on the cheap and warm, I'd look somewhere else.

Really well-written, nice touch qualifying your experiences with relevant caveats. 

I don't know your thoughts on this...but judging by the way things have been getting more expensive, I think that bar (above which you can start to live comfortably) will just continue to rise over the coming years.


When I first moved to NYC, a 10K/month salary was really really comfortable. (That was more than a decade ago though.) Nowadays, that bar seems to be at around 15-20K/month. And in another decade, perhaps 25-30K/month?

The goalposts keep moving.

Not sure if I would totally agree.  The money portion of NYC is overblown if you make 150k+.  I'll give you a sample of my budget, at about 200k/yr (11k takehome):

$3,000 rent (studio in great doorman building)
$500 eating in, cooking ($17 per day)
$500 eating out (one $50 dinner per week + one $15 meal per day)
$1000 car (garage+insurance+payment)
$300 gym (weights+boxing)
$300 incidentals
$400 household items, convenience store purchases
$800 travel (one vacation every 3-4 mos)
$1200 nightlife/dates (300/wk)
$1000 clothes (one suit and two outfits per month)
$2000 saved income
$1000 saved 401k+match (2000 total)

I'd argue that this 200k salary is more than "comfortable" for a single guy.  In fact, it's pretty easy for a guy to cut down expenses on that budget if he doesn't have a car, doesn't spend a lot of money on clothes, goes out a little less, lives in a sweet place with roommates, etc.

So far on this budget I can live comfortably alone, drive, shop, go out, travel, and still save 24k/yearly in a normal account and 48k yearly if you include my 401k. 

250k is sort of a fuck ton of money for a single guy and I don't know who would be "barely getting by" on that salary as someone alluded to above.  250k is about 14k a month so do your own math when adding an extra 3k monthly to the above budget.
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#20
(11-20-2019, 06:37 PM)Graft Wrote: I'd argue that this 200k salary is more than "comfortable" for a single guy.  In fact, it's pretty easy for a guy to cut down expenses on that budget if he doesn't have a car, doesn't spend a lot of money on clothes, goes out a little less, lives in a sweet place with roommates, etc.

So far on this budget I can live comfortably alone, drive, shop, go out, travel, and still save 24k/yearly in a normal account and 48k yearly if you include my 401k. 

250k is sort of a fuck ton of money for a single guy and I don't know who would be "barely getting by" on that salary as someone alluded to above.  250k is about 14k a month so do your own math when adding an extra 3k monthly to the above budget.

Right, yea it's important not to overstate or exaggerate the cost of living here. My numbers above are just guesses for the future of NYC...judging by the changes I've seen over the previous 10 years.

I mean, I thought 10k/month (pre-tax) was a great salary 10 years ago, and I still think it's pretty damn good (and more than livable) for a bachelor today. 

My personal target is to be able to afford to rent on my own in Manhattan, which, in 2019, means 3-4k/month. Using the 40x rule places the minimum salary requirement at right around 120-160k, at which point once could say you'd have the ideal bachelor situation. Anything beyond that is just extremely disposable income lol.
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