How results from direct approach changed through time
#1
Yes, society changed ("The More You Know★") but that's not the point.

Feels like direct approach is getting rare and less acceptable, while bullsh*ting your way in is the new norm. So I thought about sharing our personal experiences doing ONLY straight-up direct approaches, how in time results changed applying the same techniques and how you had to change your methods. Hopefully we find matching theories here that help be more efficient  Angel


Me (living in an average metropolis with a more-less international crowd. keeping simple).
How it was 3 years-ish ago: 
- "Dude you're hot" or "Hey I'm a pokemon master" or any goofy or straightforward banters were way enough to start a fun talk with a 7 or her friends, then escalate from there. Even day-time saying "Hey I saw you over there and came to tell you you're cute" was well received, or at worse she would be shy and leave you but happy by your compliment. At least doing so was a 50% chance of getting her contact and 100% guarantee of boosting your confidence with affirmation.
- You could go out on a Tuesday night and have a good time without having to check on an event's page first, or worrying if the venue would at least have a decent girls/guys attendance rate. Logistics to get a OnS were way higher at least compared to...

...Nowadays:
- Seems now like all 6s to 10s react equally annoyed from direct approach at day-time. You must add BS reasons inside your approach to be welcomed, like "Hey I'm lost..." or "Hey cool laptop, can I ask you how much was that model?". If it's genuinely a question you have then sure, but if you just wanna try to get her number, either BS or she'll see you like a pariah:/ I remember back in college saying to a cute girl at startbuck who both write notes and using an ipad "dude you're such a nerd" and made her giggle. Try doing that in 2019!
- In general, it feels like even at night at a popular club you have to do more indirect approach or have a good reason to talk to a girl, or your group has to be fun enough to invite her in:/
- PUA got mainstream that girls learned enough terms to judge you, so I've been getting quite harsh rejections this year:/ Meanwhile, guys at bars also read enough to act like they're the sh*t. When I go to a bar look for a wing, dude starts to speak like he's a psychology senior who made a thesis about body language, but then they don't wanna approach girls. Testosterone levels are in all time low.

Help...

Not here to judge nowadays SJW society. Just seeking help and help each other on being more resilient with it
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#2
I will be contributing to this thread once I start running approaches again in a week or two.

Personally I am pivoting away from my default indirect approach, which is boring to me, and instead going direct to see how it plays out.

In my experience, you need to be direct and also add a hook to continue conversation i.e. I really like your dress.... where did you get it etc.
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#3
It hasn't changed. Good game works, bad game doesn't. If she likes you then it won't really matter what you say. It's possible that things worked better for you in college because you simply had higher SMV than you do now. There's no way in hell that day game has become saturated. The majority of guys approaching girls in the day are ghetto dudes trying to holler ("hey girl, can I get yo digits girl???"), or corny PUA's opening with stupid lines. Just learn how to be under the radar and you won't categorized into either of these types.
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#4
(11-05-2019, 03:42 PM)mike Wrote: It hasn't changed. Good game works, bad game doesn't. If she likes you then it won't really matter what you say. It's possible that things worked better for you in college because you simply had higher SMV than you do now. There's no way in hell that day game has become saturated. The majority of guys approaching girls in the day are ghetto dudes trying to holler ("hey girl, can I get yo digits girl???"), or corny PUA's opening with stupid lines. Just learn how to be under the radar and you won't categorized into either of these types.

Spot on. I've been neglecting few things I used to focus a lot on to back then. Mainly daily workouts (best pheromone source other than the obvious). Need to also calibrate better the beginning of the interactions. Thanks for the aha moment and reminding key things.
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#5
Indirect game is completely and utter trash. It's spineless and it wastes time and energy. A simple "hi how are you, i noticed you from across the street and wanted "us" to meet
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#6
(11-05-2019, 08:28 PM)Quaker13 Wrote: Indirect game is completely and utter trash. It's spineless and it wastes time and energy. 

Is it? A lot of it depends on the context of the situation. If going direct on a girl is going embarrass her then indirect seems to make more sense. I've opened girls in the street by asking them where the nearest coffee shop is, and banged them
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#7
For me personally the indirect-direct works pretty well. Something like "Hey can I ask you something are you from XXX city?" - "yeah why?" - "I was just curious because I like your look, you kinda stick out from the other people around" - "Oh yeah why?" - "Blabla"

If the very first line is something like "I think you're hot and wanted to say hi" that can be a bit too much for some girls. Also it builds up quite some pressure.

Talking about Western Europe here, in Brasil or Colombia things might be different.
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#8
(11-05-2019, 05:24 PM)Kaaal Wrote: Spot on. I've been neglecting few things I used to focus a lot on to back then. Mainly daily workouts (best pheromone source other than the obvious). Need to also calibrate better the beginning of the interactions. Thanks for the aha moment and reminding key things.

How do you prevent over-training? Are they light daily workouts or do you just hit a different thing each day?

(11-05-2019, 08:28 PM)Quaker13 Wrote: Indirect game is completely and utter trash. It's spineless and it wastes time and energy. A simple "hi how are you, i noticed you from across the street and wanted "us" to meet

You need to be calibrated enough to know when to go direct or indirect.
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#9
(11-06-2019, 02:14 AM)JackinX Wrote:
(11-05-2019, 05:24 PM)Kaaal Wrote: Spot on. I've been neglecting few things I used to focus a lot on to back then. Mainly daily workouts (best pheromone source other than the obvious). Need to also calibrate better the beginning of the interactions. Thanks for the aha moment and reminding key things.

How do you prevent over-training? Are they light daily workouts or do you just hit a different thing each day?

Different topic so briefly: I did cardio and weight-lifting. Each one his own metabolism. I myself did all heavy with one-day upper body and next day lower. No such thing as over-training if you equally over-rest and over-eat healthy fat+protein+creatine. Still don't over-train or your wallet and body are broke.
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#10
(11-06-2019, 02:14 AM)JackinX Wrote:
(11-05-2019, 05:24 PM)Kaaal Wrote: Spot on. I've been neglecting few things I used to focus a lot on to back then. Mainly daily workouts (best pheromone source other than the obvious). Need to also calibrate better the beginning of the interactions. Thanks for the aha moment and reminding key things.

How do you prevent over-training? Are they light daily workouts or do you just hit a different thing each day?

edit: can't seem to embed a video properly here. Check out this clip from a JRE podcast about overtraining https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpCiwqf9AT8



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#11
(11-06-2019, 02:14 AM)JackinX Wrote:
(11-05-2019, 05:24 PM)Kaaal Wrote: Spot on. I've been neglecting few things I used to focus a lot on to back then. Mainly daily workouts (best pheromone source other than the obvious). Need to also calibrate better the beginning of the interactions. Thanks for the aha moment and reminding key things.

How do you prevent over-training? Are they light daily workouts or do you just hit a different thing each day?

(11-05-2019, 08:28 PM)Quaker13 Wrote: Indirect game is completely and utter trash. It's spineless and it wastes time and energy. A simple "hi how are you, i noticed you from across the street and wanted "us" to meet

You need to be calibrated enough to know when to go direct or indirect.

I agree. I guess I'm kinda of hypocrite lol. Just two days ago I was in the dry cleaner and a cute british girl had just finished picking up her clothes. She had a whole armful and couldn't have been more than 5'2. I offered to take them to her car, she happily took me up on the offer and we agreed to meet for drinks shortly thereafter. That same day I grabbed some late lunch and this chick had this hairstyle I like. I've seen before and been meaning to compliment her hair but this time we were in close proximity waiting for sandwiches. I made the comment about her hair and she instantly melted. I knew I had her. We chat exchange numbers and I offer to pay for her meal. She rejects the offer initially, but cajoled her because I knew the dominant sentiment would pay dividends in the bedroom later
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#12
I'm no game expert but ... isn't this the definition of supplicating beta provider game? A lot of guys don't even like to pay for meals on dates because it casts them in that frame.
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#13
I've had issue with both direct and indirect past year, the one thing I've found helps is outfit and no-fap.

It gives you that extra bit of confidence to get a good start to the opening, and the nonchalance to either keep going or walk away.

As another bro said, it seems like women by and large are getting annoyed by all approaches regardless of where they fall on the attractiveness scale.

I suspect smart phones are hurting everyone's social iqs, but women especially. Talking to strangers now, small talk, and chance encounters are seen as "stranger danger". The whole new generation of Zoomers has been told don't talk to strangers, and thus they are engrossed in their phones and homebound. With women it's a double whammy because they now prospect or soft-stalk men on dating apps and instagram.
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#14
(11-06-2019, 03:10 PM)WombRaider Wrote: I'm no game expert but ... isn't this the definition of supplicating beta provider game? A lot of guys don't even like to pay for meals on dates because it casts them in that frame.

Done incorrectly you are absolutely right, done properly and in the right frame it conveys strength and success. I'm 40, been in the game a while. I don't have a severely high body count, but i did hit the century mark by 30. Which was a bit of a grind considering there were no dating apps and very little dating sites as well. I'm a handsome, successful, well dressed man why wouldn't a woman swoon at the idea of me doing a chivalrous act. The same goes for complimenting a woman's looks. It has to be done in the right frame. For instance, say you're a garage ban and you're trying to break out on the local music scene. You're rehearsing one day and a 10 year old from the neighborhood walks by with shit taste in music and no ability to play an instrument walks up to you and tells you that you have a really awesome band. You won't give a flying fuck about that 10 year old and you'll want him to scram. Now take that scenario and swap out the 10 year old with Jimmy Page, Slash, Eric Clapton or Paul McCartney. You will be flattered beyond all belief. When it comes to chicks and giving compliment openers I consider myself Slash or Jimmy Page to the garage band that is her physical appearance. Again, this is a bit advanced.
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#15
(11-06-2019, 03:10 PM)WombRaider Wrote: I'm no game expert but ... isn't this the definition of supplicating beta provider game? A lot of guys don't even like to pay for meals on dates because it casts them in that frame.

Supplication -  Guy steps up to girl, starts his rap, she says, "BUY ME A DRINK". If he buys, he supplicates.  She makes him into her bitch. 

Beta Provision Game - Guy Steps up to girl, "Lemme buy you a drink".  He is her bitch before she even says a word.

Normal Guy with boundaries - Guy steps up to girl, starts his rap.  If they're both enjoying each other's company, "Let's grab a drink and sit in that booth" - Money facilitates the hook up.  So does the drink.

Intermediate PUA - Guy steps up to girl, starts his rap. She's digging him. She asks for a drink.  "You get the first round, I'll get the next"  

"Advanced' PUA - Guy steps up to girl, starts his rap. She's digging him. She asks for a drink.  "You get the first round, I'll get the next"  "These drinks are terrible, I know a better place up the street".  Says goodbye to her friends, we'll be right back.  

Natural/Player/Fuccboi - Guy steps up to girl, starts his rap. She's digging him. She asks for a drink.  "You get the first round, I'll get the next"  "These drinks are terrible, I know a better place up the street".  Says goodbye to her friends, we'll be right back.  The place up the street is his apartment.  

Pimp - Guy steps up.  Starts his rap.  Notices the girl.  Notices the surroundings.  Sees that the girl wants to wet her whistle.  "That guy in the leather jacket, he's been eyefucking you all night. Are you as adventurous as I think you are? Hustle 2 drinks out of him."

Normal guy that's drank too much of the Red Pill Koolaid - Guy steps up, starts his rap.  Girl asks for a drink.  Guy goes off on a tirade about independent women.  

WIA
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#16
Whether you think you can or can't approach that cute girl, you are right. Ultimately nothing has really changed, it's probably easier to direct approach now as guys have turned more soy and limit themselves to online. Especially during the day when their guard is down.
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#17
For attracting women the most fundamental thing is developing your killer instinct. In short this means optimizing your mind, neurotransmitters and hormones, for your whole life not just for girls. In detail it means:

Put your mind and body through challenges: lift, do cardio, take cold showers, fast, resist false sources of dopamine, meditate, learn something difficult and useful.

Get your vision right: be certain of your capabilities you should feel with every particle of your existence that you're unstoppable and determined to get what you want, like a secret agent, and for that you need to know and see what is that you want, and how you are going to go get it. You need to set all doubt, anxiety, feelings of inferiority aside or that anything can bound you to a less than desirable outcome. You need to have amused mastery and also it must show in your body language that you're not afraid of a physical confrontation. (Martial arts help with the latter, and again kicking ass and getting your ass kicked is helpful for you in general.)

Eat, sleep and supplement well too. Go on TRT if your older than 35 and can't get your T high enough naturally.


You'll see a marked difference in how women perceive you. I got this state occasionally in the past and now I'm working on tuning it into a habit. Girls being the last reason, the main reason being getting myself out of the undesirable situation that I am in, which is a near failure. And this is what game is about, getting the life you want, not just the girls. Definiteness of purpose is most important.

Recommended reading:
Think and grow rich
How to be an asshole (Troy Francis) not as stupid as the title sounds
The wisdom of psychopaths
How to get girls by Charles Sledge


For me there is another layer that I still struggle with and that's the conversation, especially in the day setting which is most of what I do. It's not so easy for me to engage strangers in conversation and being in an isolating environment (job that does not involve much interaction, small town with atomized people, etc) does not help.
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#18
(Today, 01:22 AM)gypscholar Wrote: For attracting women the most fundamental thing is developing your killer instinct. In short this means optimizing your mind, neurotransmitters and hormones, for your whole life not just for girls. In detail it means:

Put your mind and body through challenges: lift, do cardio, take cold showers, fast, resist false sources of dopamine, meditate, learn something difficult and useful.

Get your vision right: be certain of your capabilities you should feel with every particle of your existence that you're unstoppable and determined to get what you want, like a secret agent, and for that you need to know and see what is that you want, and how you are going to go get it. You need to set all doubt, anxiety, feelings of inferiority aside or that anything can bound you to a less than desirable outcome. You need to have amused mastery and also it must show in your body language that you're not afraid of a physical confrontation. (Martial arts help with the latter, and again kicking ass and getting your ass kicked is helpful for you in general.)

Eat, sleep and supplement well too. Go on TRT if your older than 35 and can't get your T high enough naturally.


You'll see a marked difference in how women perceive you. I got this state occasionally in the past and now I'm working on tuning it into a habit. Girls being the last reason, the main reason being getting myself out of the undesirable situation that I am in, which is a near failure. And this is what game is about, getting the life you want, not just the girls. Definiteness of purpose is most important.

Recommended reading:
Think and grow rich
How to be an asshole (Troy Francis) not as stupid as the title sounds
The wisdom of psychopaths
How to get girls by Charles Sledge


For me there is another layer that I still struggle with and that's the conversation, especially in the day setting which is most of what I do. It's not so easy for me to engage strangers in conversation and being in an isolating environment (job that does not involve much interaction, small town with atomized people, etc) does not help.

12 rules for life is another good read
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#19
(Today, 01:22 AM)gypscholar Wrote: For attracting women the most fundamental thing is developing your killer instinct. In short this means optimizing your mind, neurotransmitters and hormones, for your whole life not just for girls. In detail it means:

Put your mind and body through challenges: lift, do cardio, take cold showers, fast, resist false sources of dopamine, meditate, learn something difficult and useful.

Get your vision right: be certain of your capabilities you should feel with every particle of your existence that you're unstoppable and determined to get what you want, like a secret agent, and for that you need to know and see what is that you want, and how you are going to go get it. You need to set all doubt, anxiety, feelings of inferiority aside or that anything can bound you to a less than desirable outcome. You need to have amused mastery and also it must show in your body language that you're not afraid of a physical confrontation. (Martial arts help with the latter, and again kicking ass and getting your ass kicked is helpful for you in general.)

Eat, sleep and supplement well too. Go on TRT if your older than 35 and can't get your T high enough naturally.


You'll see a marked difference in how women perceive you. I got this state occasionally in the past and now I'm working on tuning it into a habit. Girls being the last reason, the main reason being getting myself out of the undesirable situation that I am in, which is a near failure. And this is what game is about, getting the life you want, not just the girls. Definiteness of purpose is most important.

Recommended reading:
Think and grow rich
How to be an asshole (Troy Francis) not as stupid as the title sounds
The wisdom of psychopaths
How to get girls by Charles Sledge


For me there is another layer that I still struggle with and that's the conversation, especially in the day setting which is most of what I do. It's not so easy for me to engage strangers in conversation and being in an isolating environment (job that does not involve much interaction, small town with atomized people, etc) does not help.

Hope you kick that undesirable situation's ass soon mate.

But, and I hope this helps you a bit; it's called game for a reason. You're supposed to have fun. That's all.
That gives more than enough testosterone, plus an extra high and satisfied-about-life feeling when taking the babe you once thought too good for you to your bed.

It's not a testosterone problem, it's a confidence problem often generated by excessive mental masturbation (=instead of taking action, goes read stuffs about taking actions).

The only effective way to win against struggle with conversation is to take action. Go little by little. Gather small dumb successes at first; Tell a girl on the street that you're lost. Tease a starbucks barista saying you would like an Ariana Grande. Level up little by little until you're someday direct approaching babes without even seeking any outcome. 

And FFS (sorry the language), mixing game with a serious tone and other self-improvement activities has damaged the nightlife scenery enough already, at least in my area:
Rant on...
At every corner, all dudes seems they do martial arts, read Napoleon Hill, even The Secret, PU authors, all try to look like lumberjacks or James Bond (usually a weird combo of both), and go to such detail that they think any phone background that is not plain black is unmanly. But almost all of them are doing nothing, just standing and staring at all available girls they're not approaching. There's at least one cliché per bar on a weekend.
I know at least a small skinny asian dude from work who looks like 14 although he's over 25, and a vegan ballet dancer who looks gay AF. Both can talk to and scores any girl they talk to.
Rant off...

Knowledge is NOTHING. APPLYING knowledge is everything.
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#20
Bro, I have no problem starting a convo and am not dependent on the outcome. My struggle is with keeping the convo and taking it where I wan to. Of course practice is the solution and I actually used to be much better at it but like I said I've become atomized due to circumstances. There are simply not many opportunities for approaching unless I go out every night. That's one of the reasons I wanna change my situation and find a job that involves more interaction with others and live in a place in which people are not so fucking atomized. (I can walk in my neighborhood for an hour and see only 2-3 people.)

What I'm saying in the post is that if you see girls don't take you serious then you need to work on your fundamentals.

P.S. being a ballet dancer is not anything easy and being a performer is orders of magnitude better for your game than having an office job.
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