I'm thinking about reneging on my student loans
#1
Hey all, would love advice for my predicament. 

I'm currently unemployed (so far for 3 months) and am focusing on studying for a new career. About a month ago my student loan creditor informed me my forbearance term is up so I fortunately got it pushed back a couple more months. I'm asking around and weighing my options. Once I'm done with this post I'm contacting a professional that I've known for years and may have to hire some more advisers. For hiring advisers it's not overkill since 5-10 years from now I want to open up my own company. I already got my income set up in a way that I can go on income based repayment and pay as little as possible. Bottom line is if I can get away with it I wouldn't pay up my loans. 

Pros: 
I don't want to fund the evil Department of Education with a degree I'm not using
Would make an epic david v goliath story
Politicians may introduce student loan forgiveness 

Cons: 
Credit score is fucked which will affect future loans and employment
Government might enact a law punishing deadbeats should I decide to flee America
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#2
Your post is extremely confusing.

What does not paying your student loans have to do with "calling a professional" and "hiring advisors" and "starting a business in 5 to 10 years?"

Why bother posting at all? Are you just here to have others encourage you to break your promises?
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#3
Hate to agree with Suits but this was confusing. And OP seems a long way from location independence. So it'd be a wise to keep paying the min until you're financially secure.

That said, I stopped paying mine. Zero repercussions other than poor personal credit. Which isnt even that much of a bummer since I finance any big purchase through my business's credit anyways.
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#4
(09-17-2019, 02:31 PM)ChicagoFire Wrote: Hey all, would love advice for my predicament. 

I'm currently unemployed (so far for 3 months) and am focusing on studying for a new career. About a month ago my student loan creditor informed me my forbearance term is up so I fortunately got it pushed back a couple more months. I'm asking around and weighing my options. Once I'm done with this post I'm contacting a professional that I've known for years and may have to hire some more advisers. For hiring advisers it's not overkill since 5-10 years from now I want to open up my own company. I already got my income set up in a way that I can go on income based repayment and pay as little as possible. Bottom line is if I can get away with it I wouldn't pay up my loans. 

Pros: 
I don't want to fund the evil Department of Education with a degree I'm not using
Would make an epic david v goliath story
Politicians may introduce student loan forgiveness 

Cons: 
Credit score is fucked which will affect future loans and employment
Government might enact a law punishing deadbeats should I decide to flee America

If you are serious about opening up your own biz, you should do it now instead of finding "advisors" for a "job".


Work part time to pay bills and working on your assets (it's 2019, you should have some assets online like a website or an ebay store or at least a craigslist ad for lessons or something)


If you want interesting work and unload your student loans, work for the Defense Department (Assuming you're a proud American who qualifies). There's so much opportunity out there, especially in USA, that doesn't even need school.


Trump (great guy) made it so we have "opportunity zones" where there are cities or areas that are underdeveloped conditions within America, and by reinvesting capital gains of different investors looking for a solid opportunity, they can get tax-free capital gains, and tax-free earnings stemming form that opportunity zone, while improving the area and helping create jobs.

There's much opportunity in USA and around the world as well. Just figure it out
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#5
@Suits
I'm not sure how my post is confusing. I posted so I can see what the consequences are for refusing to pay. Before I make a life changing decision I want to see what I'm overlooking. Maybe there are lurkers in the same situation that might want help.

@SpecialEd
I know there's a credit hit which affects employment, rent, and big purchases. Does the IRS take your refund money away as well? If so, hiring a tax professional might help. Once you trust someone enough they might have other specialized help they can provide you in other ventures.

@Christoff
I am in school but point taken. I ideally want experience before I go out on my own with my business (if I trust you I can post more details). If I choose to not pay my student loans then I reduce my employment options and yes, I'm better off starting my business ASAP. It might be an utter waste of time to do a job search only to find out a wrecked credit score will impact my ability to get promoted.

Thanks for the help everybody. At the end of the day I want to pay the minimum if not outright avoid it altogether.
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#6
I am going to assume that you are talking about Student Loans in the US. It depends on who is underwriting your loans.

1: If you default on loans backed by the Federal Government, expect that not only your tax refund is taken for repayment but expect the Feds to initiate a wage garnishment. Remember they can find you any time that you apply for a W-2 job and start the garnishment. So basically you have to work as a non W-2 contractor for the rest of the time that you can pay off your loans. As a Contractor you are basically declared as a tax paying citizen at the end of the year when the 1099's come out. Even with that, as you obtain assets and this becomes a larger problem in America, I would expect that someone from the Federal Government will start seizing assets of people if they owe Federal Student Loans. So say goodbye to that family house that your parents may leave you, or that new car that you bought in cash, etc. The IRS seize assets more often and more in value than the DEA/FBI and all other agencies combined. I would bet that most of your loans fall into this category as most of the student loans are underwritten by the Feds these days.

2: If the loan is underwritten by a financial institution that is not the Federal Government, i.e. bank, credit union, etc., than there may be less that they can do. They may get a court order to try to get a garnishment or try to get your tax refund, like how most courts can get the same to pay back child support to your baby mama. However, I would not say that it is a done deal until you get the judge to sign off on it. Other than that, they will bitch and scream and mark up your credit score, which is very bad if you are trying to get a loan to start that new business that you are working on, or working with partners who run a credit check on you. Depending on your state, it may be possible to force you into Bankruptcy Court and get you to declare bankruptcy. Seizing assets is harder in bankruptcy court, I believe, and even harder if you obtain it after the trial.

From either option 1 or 2, interest from college student debt gets special tax treatment and thus the loan gets special treatment when you are defaulting. As you get the benefit of taking that interest off of your taxes above the MAGI line (i.e. the interest is deducted from your taxes without being messed with) you don't get to have defaulted Student Loans wiped off of your credit, nor discharged in bankruptcy court. If you default on your student loans, they will be on your credit reports until you either die or it gets paid.

Bottom line unless you are leaving the country and going to die abroad, pay your damn student loans.

(09-17-2019, 05:55 PM)Christoff Wrote: [quote pid='14762' dateline='1568730687']

If you want interesting work and unload your student loans, work for the Defense Department (Assuming you're a proud American who qualifies). There's so much opportunity out there, especially in USA, that doesn't even need school.

[/quote]

That is a viable option to wipe out a lot of your student debt.  With all of the signing bonuses, and their own contribution, if it does not wipe out the debt it will take a very large hit of it, enough to make the debt manageable.
Formerly known as Bluto.
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#7
Smh, such degen logic.
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#8
(09-17-2019, 09:13 PM)ChicagoFire Wrote: @Suits
I'm not sure how my post is confusing. I posted so I can see what the consequences are for refusing to pay. Before I make a life changing decision I want to see what I'm overlooking. Maybe there are lurkers in the same situation that might want help. 

As I already expressed in my clear, concise, well-written and easily understandable post above, it's confusing for the following reason:

Quote:What does not paying your student loans have to do with "calling a professional" and "hiring advisors" and "starting a business in 5 to 10 years?"

The reader is left wondering whether "calling a professional" or "hiring advisors" has a relationship with the topic of the thread or if it's something you just threw in there to make yourself sound extra important. A man of action. One who confers with advisors, brings in professionals and doesn't support the communist education system.

Do you want to "hire advisors" to get help avoiding paying your student loans or is that information irrelevant? If you have access to "professionals" and are financially capable of "hiring advisors," why are you even asking the question on an Internet forum dedicated to non-financial topics? Are you trying to save money by not paying your student loans so that you can afford to hire business advisors or are you trying to hiring advisors to help you avoid paying your student loans, because you think that "hiring advisors" will be cheaper than just paying the damn loans?

[Image: ec40ce50ec50ca29c4cabf88e55e3ba4.jpg]

You didn't lay out any of this in your post, so we are all quite confused about what you are trying to communicate.
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#9
He means advisors in school for jobs and career (or paid consultant, I think he means the former one though since he is in school)
As a student you have access to those. But yeah the post needs some cleaning up haha

He's just a kid who wants to pay off student debt and career advice.

Also, maybe I'm sheltered but does a really bad credit destroy your chances for promotion in some corporations?
I've never heard of that before
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#10
I defaulted on my student loans after 2010. I had federally subsidized student loans for about $9000. No one had updated contact info on me. So, 2 years later. I noticed my pay check got hit for about $500 bucks. Then every paycheck after that got hit for like $250. They tacked on an extra $6000 to my loan. So I got garnished for basically 3 years. Because after I paid off that loan. 2 or 3 months later. They hit me up again for another $1500. It said debt recalculation. So, I decided to reach out to the debt collector to make sure they were not coming after me anymore.

When I updated my mailing address and phone number with those people. I had people calling me every other day...leaving messages to contact them. I do not know why? My pay was already being garnished. I just rode it out and contacted them to make sure everything was settled. I told them I wanted verification in writing. But I never got anything. That was 2015/2016ish. Then in 2017, my credit report got a hit from some debt collector called Williams and Fudge. Saying I owed the college some bullshit $1700 charge. Now that I have no idea what that was for. You have 7 years for most debts to drop off of your credit report. That collection fell of my credit about the end of 2017. It was on there like 6 months.

One good thing is the government never put anything on my credit. But they did confiscate my income tax refunds those couple years I had my wages garnished.

So, $9000 turned into like $20,000. Just pay it off. They give you umteen chances to defer it. Reenroll in jr college classes to put it off. Take fucking PE classes and something else to get 6 credit hours a semester.
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#11
(09-17-2019, 11:31 PM)Suits Wrote:
(09-17-2019, 09:13 PM)ChicagoFire Wrote: @Suits
I'm not sure how my post is confusing. I posted so I can see what the consequences are for refusing to pay. Before I make a life changing decision I want to see what I'm overlooking. Maybe there are lurkers in the same situation that might want help. 

As I already expressed in my clear, concise, well-written and easily understandable post above, it's confusing for the following reason:

Quote:What does not paying your student loans have to do with "calling a professional" and "hiring advisors" and "starting a business in 5 to 10 years?"

The reader is left wondering whether "calling a professional" or "hiring advisors" has a relationship with the topic of the thread or if it's something you just threw in there to make yourself sound extra important. A man of action. One who confers with advisors, brings in professionals and doesn't support the communist education system.

Do you want to "hire advisors" to get help avoiding paying your student loans or is that information irrelevant? If you have access to "professionals" and are financially capable of "hiring advisors," why are you even asking the question on an Internet forum dedicated to non-financial topics? Are you trying to save money by not paying your student loans so that you can afford to hire business advisors or are you trying to hiring advisors to help you avoid paying your student loans, because you think that "hiring advisors" will be cheaper than just paying the damn loans?

[Image: ec40ce50ec50ca29c4cabf88e55e3ba4.jpg]

You didn't lay out any of this in your post, so we are all quite confused about what you are trying to communicate.
Basically free stuff now.
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#12
ChicagoFire,

I have no tax obligation in the U.S, and I dont plan to live there again. So for me there's been zero consequences. But there arent too many people ok with (or able to) expatriating permanently so I wouldnt make the decision lightly.

As for moral qualms, fuck Uncle Sam and fuck the baby boomers who told every 18 yr old to go to uni. They have no issues leaving the debts of a defunct social security system on our shoulders. Or the debts of a housing crisis they caused. So why the fuck would I think twice about screwing them back.
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#13
You’re screwing everyone over, not just boomers. No one forced you to take the money.
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#14
^No one forcing you to stay to foot the bill.

Better yet, if youre proud to be a 'Murican, you could grow some balls and revolt against a government which no longer serves its people. People did it 250 years ago over a small tea tax. The unjust financial burdens being placed on the honest working man now are far greater.
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#15
The whole baby boomers shtick is meme economics. Please don't base your life decisions on 4chan.
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#16
(09-18-2019, 12:10 PM)SpecialEd Wrote: ^No one forcing you to stay to foot the bill.

Better yet, if youre proud to be a 'Murican, you could grow some balls and revolt against a government which no longer serves its people. People did it 250 years ago over a small tea tax. The unjust financial burdens being placed on the honest working man now are far greater.

It was not a tax on tea, it was that the crown was getting the monopoly on selling the tea to the colonists.  Dutch East Indies Company was going to be the sole supplier of tea to the colonists which ran upwards of 2 million tea drinkers.  Its like someone like Trump making themselves the sole supplier of coffee to the USA.  Even the Hippies in Seattle would buy AR-15's on that account.    Bad teachers have been teaching this to their students over the years and that is why we have the majority of the people thinking that every colonists back then were slave owning scofflaws.
Formerly known as Bluto.
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#17
(09-18-2019, 04:36 AM)SpecialEd Wrote: ChicagoFire,

I have no tax obligation in the U.S, and I dont plan to live there again. So for me there's been zero consequences. But there arent too many people ok with (or able to) expatriating permanently so I wouldnt make the decision lightly.

As for moral qualms, fuck Uncle Sam and fuck the baby boomers who told every 18 yr old to go to uni. They have no issues leaving the debts of a defunct social security system on our shoulders. Or the debts of a housing crisis they caused. So why the fuck would I think twice about screwing them back.

Thanks for the responses guys. It would be a major fuck up to get my wages garnished and take a credit hit at the moment. I'll have to play ball until I declare bankruptcy and refuse to pay my loans. There are other black swan events to consider but I don't want to get political here. 

+100 SpecialEd. Good for you. This is my mindset, I'm not going any further with boomer bashing, US policies, etc. Rest assure I can tell you all I like Paul Bilzerian and how he told the government to screw off. I aspire to be him haha Wink
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#18
(09-18-2019, 10:02 PM)JolietJake Wrote:
(09-18-2019, 12:10 PM)SpecialEd Wrote: ^No one forcing you to stay to foot the bill.

Better yet, if youre proud to be a 'Murican, you could grow some balls and revolt against a government which no longer serves its people. People did it 250 years ago over a small tea tax. The unjust financial burdens being placed on the honest working man now are far greater.

It was not a tax on tea, it was that the crown was getting the monopoly on selling the tea to the colonists.  Dutch East Indies Company was going to be the sole supplier of tea to the colonists which ran upwards of 2 million tea drinkers.  Its like someone like Trump making themselves the sole supplier of coffee to the USA.  Even the Hippies in Seattle would buy AR-15's on that account.    Bad teachers have been teaching this to their students over the years and that is why we have the majority of the people thinking that every colonists back then were slave owning scofflaws.

It was actually the BRITISH East India Company. Most of the tea coming into America before had been smuggled dutch tea.
The crown had legislated a trade monopoly (and tax) in tea and other items YEARS before (in the Navigation Acts). They were just ignored. This came to a boiling point in 1773 because the Tea Act undercut said smuggling by allowing the east india company to export duty free. Only smugglers and a handful of middlemen were affected by that. The colonists as a whole would have actually benefited. Lower prices, and better quality tea.


But I digress, my point before your tangent was that the revolutionary war began over something rather frivolous compared to whats going on today. The country is 20 trillion in debt for crying out loud. Much of that is wars the majority of people never supported and a social security fund which has been pillaged. 

If the same calibre of Americans existed today as in 1773, there would have been rivers of blood in the streets of DC. But sadly most of you 'Murica types are complete pussies.
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#19
(09-18-2019, 12:10 PM)SpecialEd Wrote: ^No one forcing you to stay to foot the bill.

Better yet, if youre proud to be a 'Murican, you could grow some balls and revolt against a government which no longer serves its people. People did it 250 years ago over a small tea tax. The unjust financial burdens being placed on the honest working man now are far greater.

That doesn’t work. You have to fix the root cause of the problem, the unsound money created out of thin air. Bitcoin fixes this. I have no reason to revolt, I don’t have student loans.
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#20
(09-19-2019, 08:09 AM)SpecialEd Wrote:
(09-18-2019, 10:02 PM)JolietJake Wrote:
(09-18-2019, 12:10 PM)SpecialEd Wrote: ^No one forcing you to stay to foot the bill.

Better yet, if youre proud to be a 'Murican, you could grow some balls and revolt against a government which no longer serves its people. People did it 250 years ago over a small tea tax. The unjust financial burdens being placed on the honest working man now are far greater.

It was not a tax on tea, it was that the crown was getting the monopoly on selling the tea to the colonists.  Dutch East Indies Company was going to be the sole supplier of tea to the colonists which ran upwards of 2 million tea drinkers.  Its like someone like Trump making themselves the sole supplier of coffee to the USA.  Even the Hippies in Seattle would buy AR-15's on that account.    Bad teachers have been teaching this to their students over the years and that is why we have the majority of the people thinking that every colonists back then were slave owning scofflaws.

It was actually the BRITISH East India Company. Most of the tea coming into America before had been smuggled dutch tea.
The crown had legislated a trade monopoly (and tax) in tea and other items YEARS before (in the Navigation Acts). They were just ignored. This came to a boiling point in 1773 because the Tea Act undercut said smuggling by allowing the east india company to export duty free. Only smugglers and a handful of middlemen were affected by that. The colonists as a whole would have actually benefited. Lower prices, and better quality tea.


But I digress, my point before your tangent was that the revolutionary war began over something rather frivolous compared to whats going on today. The country is 20 trillion in debt for crying out loud. Much of that is wars the majority of people never supported and a social security fund which has been pillaged. 

If the same calibre of Americans existed today as in 1773, there would have been rivers of blood in the streets of DC. But sadly most of you 'Murica types are complete pussies.

Mia culpa on the British/Dutch, and I agree with everything up top in spirit and with few exceptions, but lets avoid de-railing this thread any further.
Formerly known as Bluto.
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