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RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - JayJuanGee - 11-18-2019

There may be some helpful assistance that is gotten from an image like this one:

[Image: https%3A%2F%2Fblogs-images.forbes.com%2F...Emojis.jpg]


Above image was taken from a Forbes article that had been published nearly 16 months ago.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - JayJuanGee - 11-19-2019

Here's a nice little 11 minute interview with Clem Chambers, and he seems to have a decent grasp of what is going on with bitcoin in terms of macro-dynamics.

[video=youtube]https://youtu.be/g5w2wiuAIA4?t=1[/video]

That clip was contained in a news BTC article from today.

https://www.newsbtc.com/2019/11/18/analyst-bitcoin-price-can-reach-50k-on-macroeconomic-uncertainty/

I am a little bit confused about the date of the interview.  I know that the news btc article is from today, and the download of the youtube video is just a few days ago, but based on the content, it seems that Clem Chambers was describing $6k as an upwards BTC price point (rather than downwards), which would suggest that the interview was in early 2019 - before BTC had broken back above $6k, and maybe even before April 1, 2019. 

Unless, Chambers was suggesting $6k as a kind of BTC buying opportunity, and that is why he was suggesting $6k as if it were a positive BTC development?  

By the way, the interviewer, Daniela Cambone, seemed decently knowledgeable about the gold versus bitcoin versus macro-markets, but she seemed to also be a bit skeptical of bitcoin and even attempting to suggest that Chembers was not sufficiently bullish about gold - and even suggesting that she might be a bit inclined towards goldbug-ism herself.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - JayJuanGee - 11-19-2019

Seems like some of these ETF applications never die, and in this regard the SEC seems to be reviewing (and accepting comments until December 18, 2019) regarding the Bitwise / Arca ETF filing that had been rejected on October 9, 2019.

Here's a news article that came out today:
https://cointelegraph.com/news/us-sec-takes-another-look-at-rejected-bitwise-bitcoin-etf-proposal

Here's the actual SEC announcement of the review:
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2019/11/18/2019-24874/self-regulatory-organizations-nyse-arca-inc-order-scheduling-filing-of-statements-on-review-for-an

It will likely get rejected again, and I would imagine that any actual decision will extend well into early 2020, and who knows if this kind of review triggers further time extensions or consideration of further evidence that might end up being raised through the commentary period?


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - Swordfish1010 - 11-19-2019

(11-19-2019, 05:52 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote: Seems like some of these ETF applications never die, and in this regard the SEC seems to be reviewing (and accepting comments until December 18, 2019) regarding the Bitwise / Arca ETF filing that had been rejected on October 9, 2019.

Here's a news article that came out today:
https://cointelegraph.com/news/us-sec-takes-another-look-at-rejected-bitwise-bitcoin-etf-proposal

Here's the actual SEC announcement of the review:
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2019/11/18/2019-24874/self-regulatory-organizations-nyse-arca-inc-order-scheduling-filing-of-statements-on-review-for-an

It will likely get rejected again, and I would imagine that any actual decision will extend well into early 2020, and who knows if this kind of review triggers further time extensions or consideration of further evidence that might end up being raised through the commentary period?

The more time that goes on without an ETF, the less I care. It really isn't needed, but if it does ever happen it will be another source for liquidity.

There is a lot of discussion going on right now on twitter about what is the best way to store bitcoin for the long term. While multisig may seem like the best solution, there are also risks inherent to it that do not exist with single signatures. For example, if it is set up improperly as it is complex, this could result in lost coins. On the flip side, creating watch-only wallets and securely storing the recovery seeds is more secure than hardware wallets that all have inherent vulnerabilities and are not 100% safe. It is interesting to see where people reside on each side, as there is definitely not consensus.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - JayJuanGee - 11-19-2019

(11-19-2019, 08:19 AM)Swordfish1010 Wrote:
(11-19-2019, 05:52 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote: Seems like some of these ETF applications never die, and in this regard the SEC seems to be reviewing (and accepting comments until December 18, 2019) regarding the Bitwise / Arca ETF filing that had been rejected on October 9, 2019.

Here's a news article that came out today:
https://cointelegraph.com/news/us-sec-takes-another-look-at-rejected-bitwise-bitcoin-etf-proposal

Here's the actual SEC announcement of the review:
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2019/11/18/2019-24874/self-regulatory-organizations-nyse-arca-inc-order-scheduling-filing-of-statements-on-review-for-an

It will likely get rejected again, and I would imagine that any actual decision will extend well into early 2020, and who knows if this kind of review triggers further time extensions or consideration of further evidence that might end up being raised through the commentary period?

The more time that goes on without an ETF, the less I care. It really isn't needed, but if it does ever happen it will be another source for liquidity.

There is a lot of discussion going on right now on twitter about what is the best way to store bitcoin for the long term. While multisig may seem like the best solution, there are also risks inherent to it that do not exist with single signatures. For example, if it is set up improperly as it is complex, this could result in lost coins. On the flip side, creating watch-only wallets and securely storing the recovery seeds is more secure than hardware wallets that all have inherent vulnerabilities and are not 100% safe. It is interesting to see where people reside on each side, as there is definitely not consensus.


Most of us likely know the expression:  "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good," so in that regard, in bitcoin, there are likely going to be a lot of less than perfect solutions in these early days of adoption, and user interface, and also the troubles and headaches of "being your own bank" to the extent that "being your own bank" is even possible.

There may be some storage solutions that are attempted to be longer stored solutions and then there are solutions that are meant to be a kind of carry around, quick access emergency funds, and of course, you would not want to carry your whole stash around with you or to have access to your whole stash in too much of an easy way that could cause you to be attacked on the street or in whatever location that you might happen to be known to frequent.  

On the other hand, there might be some preferences that each of us would like to be able to access our full stash within a few days, if we really had an emergency need to withdraw decently large amounts of our stash - for whatever reason... and yeah, if we manage our own coins, then we would not necessarily want to have to go through a third party, but sometimes we might be willing to jump through a few hoops in order to increase our security in regards to larger portions of our stash (to the extent that we have any... hahhaahaha). 

I remember in early 2017, I had some BTC in various places, and some of that was fairly easily accessible on my phone, and I had engaged in some practices to move my BTC around and to cause them to be less accessible, but when the BTC price had shot up so much, there were places where I had relatively small amounts of bitcoin, and all of a sudden, because BTC's prices had shot up 30x or so, relatively small amounts were all of a sudden seeming like a lot of money without my even had realized how my security issues had changed.  

I recall that I was having people contact me to buy bitcoins and they were starting to act really crazy, especially when it was close to all time highs, and personally, I had felt that I had to go into a kind of isolation mode because of how crazy many people were acting, even though I could have made a lot of money to engage in BTC transactions during that time, I chose to remove myself from such interactions, because it did not seem worth it to me to be taking chances to meet people and they might even have gone crazy to get their hands on .1BTC or whatever amount that I had in my possession that previously had seemed like small amounts of money, but all of a sudden started to feel like a lot of money.  Remember in 2014/15 I would have had a lot of opportunities to buy .1BTC for $25 or so, and then all of a sudden .1BTC was worth close to $2k and some people even were acting like it was worth more than that because as I had withdrawn myself from BTC interactions, a lot of other BTC HODLers had done the same, which just exacerbated an already seemingly frenetic situation.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - JayJuanGee - 11-19-2019

Here's a reddit thread with a theory that a miner had dumped $17million worth of BTC into this market.

Bitcoin miner dumps $17M inventory into an already weak market as price battles with $8k level.

Which may or may not have happened in the way that it is theorized, and may or may not accomplish a price dump in such a way that the dumper is either going to be able to buy BTC back cheaper or even avoid loss of value, because sometimes the BTC price will do the opposite of expectations, and then the one who dumped ends up having to chase the train or just to regret that he could have sold higher or whatever.  

There are a decent number of miners who are going to have to sell a certain amount of BTC on a regular basis in order to keep their operations going and of course, if they are in a less competitive location (such as higher energy costs compared with other locations or their operations is set up in a less efficient way than the operations of some other miners) then they might have to sell at times that are not convenient to them, and sometimes a strong handed miner might want to dump at a inconvenient time to attempt to get the BTC price to go down in order to attempt to shake some of the more weaker-handed miners from the system.

It's all good and fun until someone's eye gets poked out.   Tongue


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - Swordfish1010 - 11-19-2019

(11-19-2019, 04:40 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:
(11-19-2019, 08:19 AM)Swordfish1010 Wrote:
(11-19-2019, 05:52 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote: Seems like some of these ETF applications never die, and in this regard the SEC seems to be reviewing (and accepting comments until December 18, 2019) regarding the Bitwise / Arca ETF filing that had been rejected on October 9, 2019.

Here's a news article that came out today:
https://cointelegraph.com/news/us-sec-takes-another-look-at-rejected-bitwise-bitcoin-etf-proposal

Here's the actual SEC announcement of the review:
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2019/11/18/2019-24874/self-regulatory-organizations-nyse-arca-inc-order-scheduling-filing-of-statements-on-review-for-an

It will likely get rejected again, and I would imagine that any actual decision will extend well into early 2020, and who knows if this kind of review triggers further time extensions or consideration of further evidence that might end up being raised through the commentary period?

The more time that goes on without an ETF, the less I care. It really isn't needed, but if it does ever happen it will be another source for liquidity.

There is a lot of discussion going on right now on twitter about what is the best way to store bitcoin for the long term. While multisig may seem like the best solution, there are also risks inherent to it that do not exist with single signatures. For example, if it is set up improperly as it is complex, this could result in lost coins. On the flip side, creating watch-only wallets and securely storing the recovery seeds is more secure than hardware wallets that all have inherent vulnerabilities and are not 100% safe. It is interesting to see where people reside on each side, as there is definitely not consensus.


Most of us likely know the expression:  "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good," so in that regard, in bitcoin, there are likely going to be a lot of less than perfect solutions in these early days of adoption, and user interface, and also the troubles and headaches of "being your own bank" to the extent that "being your own bank" is even possible.

There may be some storage solutions that are attempted to be longer stored solutions and then there are solutions that are meant to be a kind of carry around, quick access emergency funds, and of course, you would not want to carry your whole stash around with you or to have access to your whole stash in too much of an easy way that could cause you to be attacked on the street or in whatever location that you might happen to be known to frequent.  

On the other hand, there might be some preferences that each of us would like to be able to access our full stash within a few days, if we really had an emergency need to withdraw decently large amounts of our stash - for whatever reason... and yeah, if we manage our own coins, then we would not necessarily want to have to go through a third party, but sometimes we might be willing to jump through a few hoops in order to increase our security in regards to larger portions of our stash (to the extent that we have any... hahhaahaha). 

I remember in early 2017, I had some BTC in various places, and some of that was fairly easily accessible on my phone, and I had engaged in some practices to move my BTC around and to cause them to be less accessible, but when the BTC price had shot up so much, there were places where I had relatively small amounts of bitcoin, and all of a sudden, because BTC's prices had shot up 30x or so, relatively small amounts were all of a sudden seeming like a lot of money without my even had realized how my security issues had changed.  

I recall that I was having people contact me to buy bitcoins and they were starting to act really crazy, especially when it was close to all time highs, and personally, I had felt that I had to go into a kind of isolation mode because of how crazy many people were acting, even though I could have made a lot of money to engage in BTC transactions during that time, I chose to remove myself from such interactions, because it did not seem worth it to me to be taking chances to meet people and they might even have gone crazy to get their hands on .1BTC or whatever amount that I had in my possession that previously had seemed like small amounts of money, but all of a sudden started to feel like a lot of money.  Remember in 2014/15 I would have had a lot of opportunities to buy .1BTC for $25 or so, and then all of a sudden .1BTC was worth close to $2k and some people even were acting like it was worth more than that because as I had withdrawn myself from BTC interactions, a lot of other BTC HODLers had done the same, which just exacerbated an already seemingly frenetic situation.

People are already forgetting the highs of 2017 and only remembering the lows of the correction. I can’t wait for the next halving, not only is the inflation rate getting cut in half, but the global macro factors are all aligning at once and the common man is getting fed up with the status quo. To the moon.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - JayJuanGee - 11-19-2019

(11-19-2019, 06:30 PM)Swordfish1010 Wrote:
(11-19-2019, 04:40 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote: [edited out]
People are already forgetting the highs of 2017 and only remembering the lows of the correction.

hahahaha

That is what always seems to happen. We have a kind of pattern, and frequently people have difficulties seeing beyond whatever leg of the BTC price movement that we are currently in.

(11-19-2019, 06:30 PM)Swordfish1010 Wrote: I can’t wait for the next halving, not only is the inflation rate getting cut in half, but the global macro factors are all aligning at once and the common man is getting fed up with the status quo. To the moon.

Yep. Seems quite likely that a variety of factors are lining up in order to amplify some of BTC's price dynamics, but I doubt that there is even going to need to be any kind of tragic or devastating macro factors in order for BTC to continue to experience its adoption wave and the continuing gravitation of value into it. Of course, like you suggest, some macro circumstances can accelerate some awareness about the benefits of BTC or at least for some folks to take some minimal hedging of their bets into BTC.

How much they hedge into BTC is surely a matter of discretion, and since there remains so much ongoing lack of confidence in BTC and even distractions by shitcoins, there is likely going to continue to be a gradual and then suddenly aspect of the gravitation of value into bitcoin and my somewhat conservative perspective causes me to believe that there is still a decently long road to the gradual stage of the gravitation - but even gradual gravitation is going to likely pay off stupendously for anyone that has a minimum of a 4 year timeline.. but even better for someone who has a 10 year timeline... just hoping that the suddenly portion of the gravitation of value into bitcoin does not happen before some well intended peeps get a stake in bitcoin.

Anyhow, seems to me that matters cannot really be rushed in any way faster than they are already quite likely to happen, which remains quite thrilling for some of us relatively earlier adopters... who are even a bit jadedly thrilled by no coiners, and precoiners having to run after the train because they are failing and refusing to see the light. hahahahaha


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - JayJuanGee - 11-19-2019

Here's a nice little chart from Masterluc from December 2018.  

[Image: ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FchXRwCO.j...0Qs6SlNLvQ]


Of course, if you predict enough, sooner or later you are going to fall into the ballpark of sorcerer and seeming as if you had known something.  hahahaha

Aspects of that above chart were discussed on wall observer on bitcoin talk.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - JayJuanGee - 11-19-2019

Here's an interesting article from today that shows Fidelity has received some additional approvals regarding "digital asset" custody... whatever is digital assets?  Presumably bitcoin is in the mix.

https://medium.com/@FidelityDigitalAssets/enabling-institutions-to-access-a-new-medium-for-assets-b9d8329c8766

Here is a snip-it from a portion of the article regarding their anticipated auditing procedure:

>>>>>>>>>
Audited Operations


Fidelity Digital Assets℠ has completed the Service Organization Control (SOC) 1 Type 1 report with an independent service auditor. A SOC 1 Type 1 report describes the operational controls for our institutional custody services, as well as the independent audit firm’s opinion that these controls were suitably designed to provide reasonable assurance to achieve control objectives. Elements of the comprehensive SOC 1 Type 1 audit process included a review of our cryptographic key management, digital asset storage infrastructure, assets movement, operational reconciliation controls, and overall end-to-end control infrastructure.
This report, completed by a big four accounting firm, is the latest testament to our operational excellence, and these audits continue across several aspects of our operational policies and procedures, to demonstrate that we’ve designed and built a state-of-the-art platform.<<<<<<


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - JayJuanGee - 11-19-2019

Here's a good little Opsec recommendations article from the manufacturer of Trezor (or maybe it really should be categorized a blog post?).


When it comes to your coins, keep it quiet.


Below is a little blurb from such blog post that on the face of it seems to be a bit contrary to my own personal practices, yet there remains a question about how much personal information is really being shared by me or by others who are posting about bitcoin or crypto on the interwebs, and so even though I encourage guys here and in other forums that I participate in to post about their bitcoin strategies and views, frequently we still need to be cognizant and careful about how much specific personal financial information we are sharing and possible ramifications of oversharing some of that information, including location information, too.

>>>Avoid posting about your personal funds on social media and on internet forums.<<<<<


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - Swordfish1010 - 11-19-2019

(11-19-2019, 11:00 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote: Here's a good little Opsec recommendations article from the manufacturer of Trezor (or maybe it really should be categorized a blog post?).


When it comes to your coins, keep it quiet.


Below is a little blurb from such blog post that on the face of it seems to be a bit contrary to my own personal practices, yet there remains a question about how much personal information is really being shared by me or by others who are posting about bitcoin or crypto on the interwebs, and so even though I encourage guys here and in other forums that I participate in to post about their bitcoin strategies and views, frequently we still need to be cognizant and careful about how much specific personal financial information we are sharing and possible ramifications of oversharing some of that information, including location information, too.

>>>Avoid posting about your personal funds on social media and on internet forums.<<<<<
Pretty ironic given they just were pushing the use of a trezor as a multi factor authenticator for email use lol. Hmmm I wonder what that device is? While the nerd uses it at Starbucks.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - JayJuanGee - 11-20-2019

(11-19-2019, 11:46 PM)Swordfish1010 Wrote:
(11-19-2019, 11:00 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote: Here's a good little Opsec recommendations article from the manufacturer of Trezor (or maybe it really should be categorized a blog post?).


When it comes to your coins, keep it quiet.


Below is a little blurb from such blog post that on the face of it seems to be a bit contrary to my own personal practices, yet there remains a question about how much personal information is really being shared by me or by others who are posting about bitcoin or crypto on the interwebs, and so even though I encourage guys here and in other forums that I participate in to post about their bitcoin strategies and views, frequently we still need to be cognizant and careful about how much specific personal financial information we are sharing and possible ramifications of oversharing some of that information, including location information, too.

>>>Avoid posting about your personal funds on social media and on internet forums.<<<<<
Pretty ironic given they just were pushing the use of a trezor as a multi factor authenticator for email use lol. Hmmm I wonder what that device is? While the nerd uses it at Starbucks.

Surely, multi-factor versus single signage is a lot more involved, and ends up being much more secure, but really I doubt that there is only one way of holding your coins, and in that regard, it is not too difficult to keep smaller amounts of bitcoin (such as $100 worth, or maybe a little bit more, if you don't mind carrying around more value) in software wallets are even lightning wallets or through third-party custodian solutions.  

Sometimes, there might not be a desire to experiment with a lot of different wallets or ways of holding your coins because it can be time consuming to learn some new methods.  Maybe neither of us are going to want to become that Starbucks nerd, either, especially if we could just pull out cash or spend some other inferior money, such as having access to credit cards.

Let's say, for example, we are going on a long trip, and we plan to use some bitcoin during the trip to buy various things, depending on the value, we might be hesitant to carry very much on our trip, even if we are planning to spend $10k-ish in bitcoin value during such trip, but we still might want to have some assurance that we could access some additional money in the event of an emergency - which also might depend upon how long the trip might be.  If we are gone for a few weeks, then no BIG deal, but if we are gone for 6 months there may be desires to have confirmed access to higher amounts of value whether that would be through bitcoin or if we just feel that we can access our traditional credit accounts - but there could be places in which we are not sure whether use of a traditional credit card would be practical.. even though more and more people around the world are taking credit cards.  I recall in the 80s and 90s when I was traveling, I would frequently have to take several cashiers checks with me, but I did not expect to cash them out through individual businesses, but instead to have them available to cash out at banks and then to convert them into local funny money, as needed.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - Swordfish1010 - 11-20-2019

(11-20-2019, 12:28 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:
(11-19-2019, 11:46 PM)Swordfish1010 Wrote:
(11-19-2019, 11:00 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote: Here's a good little Opsec recommendations article from the manufacturer of Trezor (or maybe it really should be categorized a blog post?).


When it comes to your coins, keep it quiet.


Below is a little blurb from such blog post that on the face of it seems to be a bit contrary to my own personal practices, yet there remains a question about how much personal information is really being shared by me or by others who are posting about bitcoin or crypto on the interwebs, and so even though I encourage guys here and in other forums that I participate in to post about their bitcoin strategies and views, frequently we still need to be cognizant and careful about how much specific personal financial information we are sharing and possible ramifications of oversharing some of that information, including location information, too.

>>>Avoid posting about your personal funds on social media and on internet forums.<<<<<
Pretty ironic given they just were pushing the use of a trezor as a multi factor authenticator for email use lol. Hmmm I wonder what that device is? While the nerd uses it at Starbucks.

Surely, multi-factor versus single signage is a lot more involved, and ends up being much more secure, but really I doubt that there is only one way of holding your coins, and in that regard, it is not too difficult to keep smaller amounts of bitcoin (such as $100 worth, or maybe a little bit more, if you don't mind carrying around more value) in software wallets are even lightning wallets or through third-party custodian solutions.  

Sometimes, there might not be a desire to experiment with a lot of different wallets or ways of holding your coins because it can be time consuming to learn some new methods.  Maybe neither of us are going to want to become that Starbucks nerd, either, especially if we could just pull out cash or spend some other inferior money, such as having access to credit cards.

Let's say, for example, we are going on a long trip, and we plan to use some bitcoin during the trip to buy various things, depending on the value, we might be hesitant to carry very much on our trip, even if we are planning to spend $10k-ish in bitcoin value during such trip, but we still might want to have some assurance that we could access some additional money in the event of an emergency - which also might depend upon how long the trip might be.  If we are gone for a few weeks, then no BIG deal, but if we are gone for 6 months there may be desires to have confirmed access to higher amounts of value whether that would be through bitcoin or if we just feel that we can access our traditional credit accounts - but there could be places in which we are not sure whether use of a traditional credit card would be practical.. even though more and more people around the world are taking credit cards.  I recall in the 80s and 90s when I was traveling, I would frequently have to take several cashiers checks with me, but I did not expect to cash them out through individual businesses, but instead to have them available to cash out at banks and then to convert them into local funny money, as needed.

Maybe I didn’t explain it well, I meant to use the trezor as the second factor instead of say authenticator on your phone. It sends the signal to everyone there that you are doing something unique and if they know what a hww looks like, you just told everyone you had at least enough on it to justify the cost of one. I would recommend larger amounts on a watch only wallet, smaller amount on a hww, and very small amounts on a mobile wallet. There is no reason to limit yourself. Also if you connect your mobile to electrum you can have a full node connection even. This is really easy to do now with the mynode free software. I’m probably going to upgrade from the community version to the premium version ($100) so I can connect to it remotely and use tor. Verifying the authenticity for basically free is a big reason why what makes bitcoin so much better than gold, which is expensive and hard to audit. A gold “full node” would basically be melting down the gold and reheating it after. There is lots of fake gold being sold as real gold everyday now due to the advances in technology enabling fake gold to look real.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - JayJuanGee - 11-20-2019

(11-20-2019, 01:21 AM)Swordfish1010 Wrote:
(11-20-2019, 12:28 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote: [edited out]

Maybe I didn’t explain it well, I meant to use the trezor as the second factor instead of say authenticator on your phone. It sends the signal to everyone there that you are doing something unique and if they know what a hww looks like, you just told everyone you had at least enough on it to justify the cost of one. I would recommend larger amounts on a watch only wallet, smaller amount on a hww, and very small amounts on a mobile wallet. There is no reason to limit yourself. Also if you connect your mobile to electrum you can have a full node connection even. This is really easy to do now with the mynode free software. I’m probably going to upgrade from the community version to the premium version ($100) so I can connect to it remotely and use tor. Verifying the authenticity for basically free is a big reason why what makes bitcoin so much better than gold, which is expensive and hard to audit. A gold “full node” would basically be melting down the gold and reheating it after. There is lots of fake gold being sold as real gold everyday now due to the advances in technology enabling fake gold to look real.

I agree that I went off on a bit of a different tangent, and surely there are mistakes that various vendors make in their attempt to balance user-friendliness with security, and sometimes oversights happen... hopefully they are not too critical, but you might not know until you end up getting clubbed over the head with a $5 wrench from someone finding out that you own a Trezor (or whatever other mistake that had been made in your opsec).

We are not going to always realize all of the various possible attack vectors or even if there is a way to have plausible deniability or a way to suggest that an attacker might have bad (wrong) information while he is beating your over the head with the $5 wrench in a dark alley.

Innocent bitcoiner: "Hey, you are mistaken. That was not my bitcoin, someone sent a transaction to me, and that would have been their change?"

Attacker: "Who was it?"

Innocent bitcoiner: "I don't know the guy's name. I told him that I wanted to buy $300 worth of bitcoin, and he must have had $6k in the address that he sent from"

Attacker: "I'm going to keep beating you until you give me the balance of $5,700."

Innocent bitcoiner: "I don't have $5,700. All I had is $300, and I already spent that on hookers and blow." (not that I am endorsing hookers, its just an expression in bitcoinlandia).

Anyhow, attackers may or may not be very smart, and sometimes they might spend a lot of time to beat you when you don't have anything of value that you can access. Not that this scenario has ever happened to anyone that I know, but we frequently hear about these kinds of stories regarding crimes over small amounts of value, as you already suggested, swordfish.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - Swordfish1010 - 11-20-2019

(11-20-2019, 01:38 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:
(11-20-2019, 01:21 AM)Swordfish1010 Wrote:
(11-20-2019, 12:28 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote: [edited out]

Maybe I didn’t explain it well, I meant to use the trezor as the second factor instead of say authenticator on your phone. It sends the signal to everyone there that you are doing something unique and if they know what a hww looks like, you just told everyone you had at least enough on it to justify the cost of one. I would recommend larger amounts on a watch only wallet, smaller amount on a hww, and very small amounts on a mobile wallet. There is no reason to limit yourself. Also if you connect your mobile to electrum you can have a full node connection even. This is really easy to do now with the mynode free software. I’m probably going to upgrade from the community version to the premium version ($100) so I can connect to it remotely and use tor. Verifying the authenticity for basically free is a big reason why what makes bitcoin so much better than gold, which is expensive and hard to audit. A gold “full node” would basically be melting down the gold and reheating it after. There is lots of fake gold being sold as real gold everyday now due to the advances in technology enabling fake gold to look real.

I agree that I went off on a bit of a different tangent, and surely there are mistakes that various vendors make in their attempt to balance user-friendliness with security, and sometimes oversights happen... hopefully they are not too critical, but you might not know until you end up getting clubbed over the head with a $5 wrench from someone finding out that you own a Trezor (or whatever other mistake that had been made in your opsec).    

We are not going to always realize all of the various possible attack vectors or even if there is a way to have plausible deniability or a way to suggest that an attacker might have bad (wrong) information while he is beating your over the head with the $5 wrench in a dark alley.  

Innocent bitcoiner:  "Hey, you are mistaken.  That was not my bitcoin, someone sent a transaction to me, and that would have been their change?"

Attacker:  "Who was it?"

Innocent bitcoiner:  "I don't know the guy's name. I told him that I wanted to buy $300 worth of bitcoin, and he must have had $6k in the address that he sent from"

Attacker:  "I'm going to keep beating you until you give me the balance of $5,700."

Innocent bitcoiner:  "I don't have $5,700.  All I had is $300, and I already spent that on hookers and blow."  (not that I am endorsing hookers, its just an expression in bitcoinlandia).

Anyhow, attackers may or may not be very smart, and sometimes they might spend a lot of time to beat you when you don't have anything of value that you can access.  Not that this scenario has ever happened to anyone that I know, but we frequently hear about these kinds of stories regarding crimes over small amounts of value, as you already suggested, swordfish.

Yeah or you could coinjoin your coins too. I don’t see this being too much of an issue since there is complete privacy on layer 2 with lightning.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - JayJuanGee - 11-20-2019

(11-20-2019, 02:10 AM)Swordfish1010 Wrote:
(11-20-2019, 01:38 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote: [edited out]

Surely none of us should feel that we need to live our lives in fear, and so in that regard, we should attempt to figure out ways to be normal, including ways to have plausible deniability, especially when anyone on the street would not necessarily know anything about us, unless we somehow had given some kind of information to cause suspicion.  There are some people in the crypto scene that are real public figures, but some of those people might not feel comfortable walking down a dark alley or even down a long street in a shady area.  I remember several times going various sketchy places and not really worrying about my security...and then also thinking, well the most they could get from me is the $100 that is in my wallet, or something like that, and now we carry around cell phones that might be worth $1,000 or more, and surely if everyone else has similar valuables, then you don't really stand out.. but overall plausible deniability seems like a good tool, until there is information that you just cannot avoid or when there ends up being beliefs fro the bad guys that are based on mistaken information.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - Swordfish1010 - 11-20-2019

(11-20-2019, 02:21 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:
(11-20-2019, 02:10 AM)Swordfish1010 Wrote:
(11-20-2019, 01:38 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote: [edited out]

Surely none of us should feel that we need to live our lives in fear, and so in that regard, we should attempt to figure out ways to be normal, including ways to have plausible deniability, especially when anyone on the street would not necessarily know anything about us, unless we somehow had given some kind of information to cause suspicion.  There are some people in the crypto scene that are real public figures, but some of those people might not feel comfortable walking down a dark alley or even down a long street in a shady area.  I remember several times going various sketchy places and not really worrying about my security...and then also thinking, well the most they could get from me is the $100 that is in my wallet, or something like that, and now we carry around cell phones that might be worth $1,000 or more, and surely if everyone else has similar valuables, then you don't really stand out.. but overall plausible deniability seems like a good tool, until there is information that you just cannot avoid or when there ends up being beliefs fro the bad guys that are based on mistaken information.
It’s hard to prove a negative. Bitcoin? That’s a bubble. Only losers touch that stuff.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - JayJuanGee - 11-20-2019

This here website shows a lot of interesting live measures of the bitcoin network and what is going on.

https://bytetree.com/bitcoin

It was linked by dkbit98 in the bitcoin velocity thread on bitcointalk.org.

Here's a snapshot that he provided:

[Image: ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FZ7Ojmrn.p...WTRBDF-PVg]


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - Swordfish1010 - 11-20-2019

(11-20-2019, 03:05 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote: This here website shows a lot of interesting live measures of the bitcoin network and what is going on.

https://bytetree.com/bitcoin

It was linked by dkbit98 in the bitcoin velocity thread on bitcointalk.org.

Here's a snapshot that he provided:

[Image: ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FZ7Ojmrn.p...WTRBDF-PVg]

When moon?