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RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - JayJuanGee - 10-28-2019

Here's an interesting article talking about how BAKKT is releasing a kind of consumer oriented product in early 2020.


https://medium.com/bakkt-blog/unlocking-the-value-of-digital-assets-bdda43214720

A poster on bitcoin talk, Paashaas characterized it as "their consumer app and merchant portal" which might be an accurate characterization.

A quote from the article suggests that they have four areas of focus in their intended launch:

>>>>>>>>"1. Digital asset infrastructure: We’re working to reduce friction in the use of digital assets to reflect their aggregate value and to reflect an increase in purchasing power that was previously siloed. For merchants, this enterprise-grade infrastructure enables a new form of payment acceptance at a lower cost per transaction along with faster settlement times, driving efficiencies compared to existing workflows.
2. Marketplace access: We’ll be launching a consumer app to make it easy for consumers to discover and unlock the value of digital assets, as well as ways in which they can transact or track them. Merchants gain access to a broader set of customers with expanded spending power.
3. Maximizing control: We started with the concept of a consumer-driven platform that offers the ultimate control over their digital assets, including the flexibility on how to use them. For merchants, we’re focused on delivering more control over costs and innovative customer engagement, both freeing up capital and supporting a direct relationship with their customers.
4. Establishing trust: Bakkt’s approach to secure technology, privacy and innovation means that we are an advocate for consumers who have yet to enter the digital asset space, and for merchants who want to accept new, efficient forms of payments without increasing risks."<<<<<<<



RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - Swordfish1010 - 10-28-2019

Frankly I find this leg humping of china quite disgusting. Bitcoin is about freedom.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - JayJuanGee - 10-28-2019

(10-28-2019, 08:28 PM)Swordfish1010 Wrote: Frankly I find this leg humping of china quite disgusting. Bitcoin is about freedom.

hahaahahha

Do you want me to stop posting such nonsense?

Not that I am going to listen.. but just wondering?

I think part of the point that I was attempting to make, earlier, was that the impact of China has been a common theme in bitcoinlandia, at least since I have been in bitcoin, and it was likely already happening before I got in, too.

Whether these talking points are attack vectors or not, we are often going to see all kinds of distracting and quasi-irrelevant shit in the space, and sometimes there could be some validity to bring it up just because it is getting so much attention in mainstream circles, but I would hate to be accused of buying into some nonsense mainstream propaganda, even though I know that I have been guilty of is on several occasions.  What I mean is that sometimes some topic or spin will come up, and after looking at the matter (or even posting various first impressions about the matter), later I will discover that I have been played.  It surely happens to a decent number of people in this space, even supposed experts get played at their own game.  

Take Jameson Lopp, for example.  I don't know if he did anything wrong, but he was touting security and trying to be a voice of security, and various things have happened with him including swatting and also extensive criticism of the Casa node for security holes, and maybe there are just efforts to discredit him, but probably more likely I kind of consider him to have suffered some aspects of "getting played."


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - Swordfish1010 - 10-29-2019

They hard coded default credentials into the casa node. For a device that is sending traffic in the clear to that is a huge security risk. Any compromised device on the network could get the seed.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - JayJuanGee - 10-29-2019

(10-29-2019, 06:14 AM)Swordfish1010 Wrote: They hard coded default credentials into the casa node. For a device that is sending traffic in the clear to that is a huge security risk. Any compromised device on the network could get the seed.

Lopp's reputation has been coming down, and maybe you are quibbling a bit with my use of him as an example of someone who had gotten played when maybe instead he had caused some of his own issues.  I suppose that my point still is valid in terms of anyone can end up getting played, even if they are kind of a sophisticated player.

Regarding the Casa Node specifically, I had not heard Lopp specifically defend the company on that point, but the company did release an explanation that tries to argue that with any device or even software there are likely going to be trade-offs between usability and security, and they had attempted to suggest that they had put a lot of thought into trying to strike a proper balance.  It would be hard to suggest that they actually did this on purpose, but sure from what I had heard of JW Weatherman's criticism seems to argue that the company had been purposefully evasive of the security risk rather than just being upfront to both admit it and to provide a meaningful solution, which I found a bit disingenuous that Casa Node peeps had recently been arguing that Casa Node had only been intended for smaller amounts - which just seems contradictory as fuck, if I am understanding their argument sufficiently.  

With almost any hardware it seems that there can be some kinds of security risks, and let's just take the Trezor for example, which is probably amongst the better of the user-friendly devices, and if you get your Trezor through one of their authorized distributors, then you are lessening the likelihood of third party tampering versus if you just randomly got your trezor off of ebay or through some other private sale.  Anyhow, if anyone goes with default settings on trezor and assumes that the actual physical device has not been compromised beyond Trezor's standard hardware features, then default setting puts you validating (or verifying) your transactions and balances, etc through Trezor's servers, so making the Trezor more secure would be to run it through your own node or to set it up to run through a node that you trust.  I guess part of my point here is that there are a lot of users who are going to want to trade off usability even though running a node would be more secure, in part because people get scared of setting up their own node and may even feel that they could easily screw that part up too... and other people keep large sums of money on exchanges because they are way more comfortable with NOT having to have to learn so much about security measures and/or responsibilities of "being your own bank" to the extent that aspiration is even feasible.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - JayJuanGee - 10-29-2019

Here's an article from today that asserts that the wealthiest of people in the world have way more capital thatn they know what to do with, and in essence they are having troubles (if you can call it that?) trying to figure out where to put their capital in order to feel some comfort in that their capital is going to be working for them.

Maybe the answer is bitcoin?  Perhaps?  or maybe they want to throw it into some shitcoin in order that they are ensured to lose value? hahahaha.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-super-rich-elite-have-more-money-than-they-know-what-to-do-with-2019-10-28


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - Swordfish1010 - 10-29-2019

(10-29-2019, 03:17 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:
(10-29-2019, 06:14 AM)Swordfish1010 Wrote: They hard coded default credentials into the casa node. For a device that is sending traffic in the clear to that is a huge security risk. Any compromised device on the network could get the seed.

Lopp's reputation has been coming down, and maybe you are quibbling a bit with my use of him as an example of someone who had gotten played when maybe instead he had caused some of his own issues.  I suppose that my point still is valid in terms of anyone can end up getting played, even if they are kind of a sophisticated player.

Regarding the Casa Node specifically, I had not heard Lopp specifically defend the company on that point, but the company did release an explanation that tries to argue that with any device or even software there are likely going to be trade-offs between usability and security, and they had attempted to suggest that they had put a lot of thought into trying to strike a proper balance.  It would be hard to suggest that they actually did this on purpose, but sure from what I had heard of JW Weatherman's criticism seems to argue that the company had been purposefully evasive of the security risk rather than just being upfront to both admit it and to provide a meaningful solution, which I found a bit disingenuous that Casa Node peeps had recently been arguing that Casa Node had only been intended for smaller amounts - which just seems contradictory as fuck, if I am understanding their argument sufficiently.  

With almost any hardware it seems that there can be some kinds of security risks, and let's just take the Trezor for example, which is probably amongst the better of the user-friendly devices, and if you get your Trezor through one of their authorized distributors, then you are lessening the likelihood of third party tampering versus if you just randomly got your trezor off of ebay or through some other private sale.  Anyhow, if anyone goes with default settings on trezor and assumes that the actual physical device has not been compromised beyond Trezor's standard hardware features, then default setting puts you validating (or verifying) your transactions and balances, etc through Trezor's servers, so making the Trezor more secure would be to run it through your own node or to set it up to run through a node that you trust.  I guess part of my point here is that there are a lot of users who are going to want to trade off usability even though running a node would be more secure, in part because people get scared of setting up their own node and may even feel that they could easily screw that part up too... and other people keep large sums of money on exchanges because they are way more comfortable with NOT having to have to learn so much about security measures and/or responsibilities of "being your own bank" to the extent that aspiration is even feasible.

I came into bitcoin from infosec and there is no excuse to do what they did. That wouldn't fly even in the 90s and even for non-money purposes. I'm sure they DID do it on purpose which only makes the blunder look worse. It is a huge misstep that they need to just own and release a fix for asap. JW wasn't the first person to call them out either, but it is nice to see some more real infosec people enter the space. But yeah the hardware wallet space is still a mess, better solutions will come out when the money gets more serious. bitcoin is still a rounding error on a balance sheet. coldcard is probably the best option available right now but anything that has a seed is a risk. Seedless multisig is the future.

(10-29-2019, 07:11 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote: Here's an article from today that asserts that the wealthiest of people in the world have way more capital thatn they know what to do with, and in essence they are having troubles (if you can call it that?) trying to figure out where to put their capital in order to feel some comfort in that their capital is going to be working for them.

Maybe the answer is bitcoin?  Perhaps?  or maybe they want to throw it into some shitcoin in order that they are ensured to lose value? hahahaha.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-super-rich-elite-have-more-money-than-they-know-what-to-do-with-2019-10-28

I have 0 doubt in my mind that rich people will start entering this space. The risk reward ratio is just no where else to be found, and it is increasingly difficult to get yield anywhere else of any size. The 7.5 -> 10.5 1 day run grabbed everyone's attention.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - JayJuanGee - 10-29-2019

Here's a website that shows another interesting angle on market capitalization to show various fiat currencies priced in terms of bitcoins and satoshis.


https://fiatmarketcap.com/

[Image: ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.ibb.co%2F4s8Nnt6%2FIM...VNMUYv6IRg]


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - Swordfish1010 - 10-30-2019

(10-29-2019, 11:03 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote: Here's a website that shows another interesting angle on market capitalization to show various fiat currencies priced in terms of bitcoins and satoshis.


https://fiatmarketcap.com/

[Image: ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.ibb.co%2F4s8Nnt6%2FIM...VNMUYv6IRg]

This is why goldsteins everyone is a scammer article aged so well. You are trading a non scarce unlimited supply piece of paper for the scarcest resource ever created. Eventually I don’t think this will even be an option, people will have to earn btc from actually creating value in the market.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - JayJuanGee - 10-30-2019

I came across a tweet that talks about sparkswap, which apparently is some kind of ability to buy bitcoins on lightning network with no fees and have those bitcoins directly transferred into a non-custodial wallet.

https://twitter.com/barackomaba/status/1188930710503133186


Here's an article explaining it:

https://medium.com/sparkswap/sparkswap-desktop-the-only-way-to-buy-bitcoin-on-the-lightning-network-5233b971d6f6

I have not used that service.


Here's a website of the company, and it might be worth a try, at some point.


https://sparkswap.com/


I am a bit hesitant because I am not sure about the security measures, if the product has been adequately vetted or if there is assurances that your computer would not get compromised from software installation and matters like that.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - JayJuanGee - 10-30-2019

Today  (really yesterday's news) looks good on an annual date basis.


https://twitter.com/ChartsBtc/status/1189191490200690689


[Image: EIDbWziUwAAWHyw?format=jpg&name=small]


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - Swordfish1010 - 10-30-2019

(10-30-2019, 04:23 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote: I came across a tweet that talks about sparkswap, which apparently is some kind of ability to buy bitcoins on lightning network with no fees and have those bitcoins directly transferred into a non-custodial wallet.

https://twitter.com/barackomaba/status/1188930710503133186


Here's an article explaining it:

https://medium.com/sparkswap/sparkswap-desktop-the-only-way-to-buy-bitcoin-on-the-lightning-network-5233b971d6f6

I have not used that service.


Here's a website of the company, and it might be worth a try, at some point.


https://sparkswap.com/


I am a bit hesitant because I am not sure about the security measures, if the product has been adequately vetted or if there is assurances that your computer would not get compromised from software installation and matters like that.

lightning is going to be huge. check out jacks (zap) episode on SLP, it's really good.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - JayJuanGee - 10-30-2019

(10-30-2019, 06:30 AM)Swordfish1010 Wrote:
(10-30-2019, 04:23 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote: I came across a tweet that talks about sparkswap, which apparently is some kind of ability to buy bitcoins on lightning network with no fees and have those bitcoins directly transferred into a non-custodial wallet.

https://twitter.com/barackomaba/status/1188930710503133186


Here's an article explaining it:

https://medium.com/sparkswap/sparkswap-desktop-the-only-way-to-buy-bitcoin-on-the-lightning-network-5233b971d6f6

I have not used that service.


Here's a website of the company, and it might be worth a try, at some point.


https://sparkswap.com/


I am a bit hesitant because I am not sure about the security measures, if the product has been adequately vetted or if there is assurances that your computer would not get compromised from software installation and matters like that.

lightning is going to be huge. check out jacks (zap) episode on SLP, it's really good.

Hm?  Maybe I should listen to that one again?  I just continue to believe that these matters are going to take time, and don't you already believe that usability on lightning seems a bit more technical than onchain?  Anyhow, lightning would be just holding much smaller amounts, anyhow, and probably the vast majority of anyone's bitcoin holdings should be in some cold storage or semi-cold storage mechanisms... especially since we seem to be so early to bitcoin and we should be able to acquire decent wealth that is just kept in cold storage that we might draw from from time to time.


By the way, here's a nice little updated article talking about Schnorr signatures and Taproot, with a couple of embedded videos, too.

An Upcoming Protocol Improvement Could Massively Improve Bitcoin Privacy


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - JayJuanGee - 10-30-2019

I hate to bring up shitcoins, but sometimes these matters are a bit relevant.

Accordingly, it could be argued that the two bcash variants are holding their own in mining hash power, but they are surely losing a whole hell of a lot of hashing power, relative to bitcoin.

[Image: EIDMnMZXkAAcQ_a?format=png&name=small]

From the two orange-yellow-ish lines on the bottom, you can see how the two bcash variants are attracting paltry levels of hash power of course the bcash sv fork has even lower levels of hashpower than bcash abc.

Probably as computing power gets cheaper, the hashpower of any chain likely has to continue to get higher just to maintain the status quo and to stave off attacks that become easier to make because hashing power becomes cheaper through improvements in computing power.

Furthermore, I think both variations of bcash use the same or a very similar algorithm as bitcoin, and therefore if bcash variant(s) hashpower is not keeping up, relative to bitcoin, then it can become pretty cheap for some of bitcoin's hashing power to get turned upon the bcash variants in order to cause them to be even less secure.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - Swordfish1010 - 10-30-2019

(10-30-2019, 06:41 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:
(10-30-2019, 06:30 AM)Swordfish1010 Wrote:
(10-30-2019, 04:23 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote: I came across a tweet that talks about sparkswap, which apparently is some kind of ability to buy bitcoins on lightning network with no fees and have those bitcoins directly transferred into a non-custodial wallet.

https://twitter.com/barackomaba/status/1188930710503133186


Here's an article explaining it:

https://medium.com/sparkswap/sparkswap-desktop-the-only-way-to-buy-bitcoin-on-the-lightning-network-5233b971d6f6

I have not used that service.


Here's a website of the company, and it might be worth a try, at some point.


https://sparkswap.com/


I am a bit hesitant because I am not sure about the security measures, if the product has been adequately vetted or if there is assurances that your computer would not get compromised from software installation and matters like that.

lightning is going to be huge. check out jacks (zap) episode on SLP, it's really good.

Hm?  Maybe I should listen to that one again?  I just continue to believe that these matters are going to take time, and don't you already believe that usability on lightning seems a bit more technical than onchain?  Anyhow, lightning would be just holding much smaller amounts, anyhow, and probably the vast majority of anyone's bitcoin holdings should be in some cold storage or semi-cold storage mechanisms... especially since we seem to be so early to bitcoin and we should be able to acquire decent wealth that is just kept in cold storage that we might draw from from time to time.


By the way, here's a nice little updated article talking about Schnorr signatures and Taproot, with a couple of embedded videos, too.

An Upcoming Protocol Improvement Could Massively Improve Bitcoin Privacy

It may be a little cumbersome still, but that will change with things like olympus where you can onboard directly from fiat. Also the only really cumbersome part is receiving lightning, not sending it, due to the liquidity requirements.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - JayJuanGee - 10-30-2019

(10-30-2019, 07:43 AM)Swordfish1010 Wrote:
(10-30-2019, 06:41 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:
(10-30-2019, 06:30 AM)Swordfish1010 Wrote:
(10-30-2019, 04:23 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote: I came across a tweet that talks about sparkswap, which apparently is some kind of ability to buy bitcoins on lightning network with no fees and have those bitcoins directly transferred into a non-custodial wallet.

https://twitter.com/barackomaba/status/1188930710503133186


Here's an article explaining it:

https://medium.com/sparkswap/sparkswap-desktop-the-only-way-to-buy-bitcoin-on-the-lightning-network-5233b971d6f6

I have not used that service.


Here's a website of the company, and it might be worth a try, at some point.


https://sparkswap.com/


I am a bit hesitant because I am not sure about the security measures, if the product has been adequately vetted or if there is assurances that your computer would not get compromised from software installation and matters like that.

lightning is going to be huge. check out jacks (zap) episode on SLP, it's really good.

Hm?  Maybe I should listen to that one again?  I just continue to believe that these matters are going to take time, and don't you already believe that usability on lightning seems a bit more technical than onchain?  Anyhow, lightning would be just holding much smaller amounts, anyhow, and probably the vast majority of anyone's bitcoin holdings should be in some cold storage or semi-cold storage mechanisms... especially since we seem to be so early to bitcoin and we should be able to acquire decent wealth that is just kept in cold storage that we might draw from from time to time.


By the way, here's a nice little updated article talking about Schnorr signatures and Taproot, with a couple of embedded videos, too.

An Upcoming Protocol Improvement Could Massively Improve Bitcoin Privacy

It may be a little cumbersome still, but that will change with things like olympus where you can onboard directly from fiat. Also the only really cumbersome part is receiving lightning, not sending it, due to the liquidity requirements.

I am both glad that lots of smart peeps are working on these kinds of matters, and that I am patient.

In the meantime, my bitcoin continues to gain value in cold storage and perhaps easier ways to liquidate are being worked on, on an ongoing basis.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - Swordfish1010 - 10-30-2019

(10-30-2019, 07:47 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:
(10-30-2019, 07:43 AM)Swordfish1010 Wrote:
(10-30-2019, 06:41 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:
(10-30-2019, 06:30 AM)Swordfish1010 Wrote:
(10-30-2019, 04:23 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote: I came across a tweet that talks about sparkswap, which apparently is some kind of ability to buy bitcoins on lightning network with no fees and have those bitcoins directly transferred into a non-custodial wallet.

https://twitter.com/barackomaba/status/1188930710503133186


Here's an article explaining it:

https://medium.com/sparkswap/sparkswap-desktop-the-only-way-to-buy-bitcoin-on-the-lightning-network-5233b971d6f6

I have not used that service.


Here's a website of the company, and it might be worth a try, at some point.


https://sparkswap.com/


I am a bit hesitant because I am not sure about the security measures, if the product has been adequately vetted or if there is assurances that your computer would not get compromised from software installation and matters like that.

lightning is going to be huge. check out jacks (zap) episode on SLP, it's really good.

Hm?  Maybe I should listen to that one again?  I just continue to believe that these matters are going to take time, and don't you already believe that usability on lightning seems a bit more technical than onchain?  Anyhow, lightning would be just holding much smaller amounts, anyhow, and probably the vast majority of anyone's bitcoin holdings should be in some cold storage or semi-cold storage mechanisms... especially since we seem to be so early to bitcoin and we should be able to acquire decent wealth that is just kept in cold storage that we might draw from from time to time.


By the way, here's a nice little updated article talking about Schnorr signatures and Taproot, with a couple of embedded videos, too.

An Upcoming Protocol Improvement Could Massively Improve Bitcoin Privacy

It may be a little cumbersome still, but that will change with things like olympus where you can onboard directly from fiat. Also the only really cumbersome part is receiving lightning, not sending it, due to the liquidity requirements.

I am both glad that lots of smart peeps are working on these kinds of matters, and that I am patient.

In the meantime, my bitcoin continues to gain value in cold storage and perhaps easier ways to liquidate are being worked on, on an ongoing basis.

Yeah I was catching up with my old childhood friend last week and I directly said "bitcoin is humbling. I am not that rich, not that smart, and not that important." So many geniuses in this space its insane.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - JayJuanGee - 10-30-2019

(10-30-2019, 05:49 PM)Swordfish1010 Wrote:
(10-30-2019, 07:47 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:
(10-30-2019, 07:43 AM)Swordfish1010 Wrote:
(10-30-2019, 06:41 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:
(10-30-2019, 06:30 AM)Swordfish1010 Wrote: lightning is going to be huge. check out jacks (zap) episode on SLP, it's really good.

Hm?  Maybe I should listen to that one again?  I just continue to believe that these matters are going to take time, and don't you already believe that usability on lightning seems a bit more technical than onchain?  Anyhow, lightning would be just holding much smaller amounts, anyhow, and probably the vast majority of anyone's bitcoin holdings should be in some cold storage or semi-cold storage mechanisms... especially since we seem to be so early to bitcoin and we should be able to acquire decent wealth that is just kept in cold storage that we might draw from from time to time.


By the way, here's a nice little updated article talking about Schnorr signatures and Taproot, with a couple of embedded videos, too.

An Upcoming Protocol Improvement Could Massively Improve Bitcoin Privacy

It may be a little cumbersome still, but that will change with things like olympus where you can onboard directly from fiat. Also the only really cumbersome part is receiving lightning, not sending it, due to the liquidity requirements.

I am both glad that lots of smart peeps are working on these kinds of matters, and that I am patient.

In the meantime, my bitcoin continues to gain value in cold storage and perhaps easier ways to liquidate are being worked on, on an ongoing basis.

Yeah I was catching up with my old childhood friend last week and I directly said "bitcoin is humbling. I am not that rich, not that smart, and not that important." So many geniuses in this space its insane.

In some sense, the non-genius move becomes kind of genius, but I try NOT to take too much for granted that is for sure.  So overall, I already prepare for BTC's price to go in either direction, and hope for a minimum return that averages at least 6% per year in order to at least stay on par or to out perform my traditional investments that seem to return around 5.5% on average.  Anyhow, there definitely seems to be way more potential than 6% per year, but I have never really counted on it.

Of course, anyone can make mistakes in terms of both getting caught up in shitcoins or getting distracted by quasi-irrelevant arguments that shitcoiners tend to propound without really realizing that is what they are doing with the various kinds of true beliefs of how some of the shitcoins are supposedly better than bitcoin in various ways.

There is a certain realization that in order for a shitcoin, whether it is ethereum, bcash variants (abc or sv), ripple, monero, tron, eos, litecoin, stellar, or any of the other supposed contenders, need to improve upon bitcoin in considerably great ways, maybe 10x improvements in order to really be a meaningful contender.  There is a power in boring.  There is a power in networking effects.  There is a strength that bitcoin has with NOT being easy to change that diptwats nimwits (who might otherwise be really smart people) get distracted into thinking that one of bitcoin's major strengths is actually a weakness), and it is so easy to get distracted into such nonsense through being too smart for your own good.  

Surely, the market is going to speak more, and I think that it is already kind of speaking (which you seem to see that too, swordfish) in terms of the ongoing strength of king daddy in getting a lot of the incentives and the dynamics correct that allow developers, miners and users to freely decide - and to gravitate towards bitcoin's kind of logically sound shelling point... and just let the many scam attempts play out, because there is nothing even close to being on the horizons even though the ethereum pumpers seem to believe that they have something materially meaningful there within that smoke and mirrors with a side pumpening wagon feature.  There is no doubt that it is going to be pumped again, and maybe even have some periods of outperforming bitcoin in the short-term.. which will get many snot-nosed 14 year olds, and maybe even a few BIG named companies quite worked up too in terms of their ongoing confusing nonsense.   hahahahahaha


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - Swordfish1010 - 10-30-2019

(10-30-2019, 06:07 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:
(10-30-2019, 05:49 PM)Swordfish1010 Wrote:
(10-30-2019, 07:47 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:
(10-30-2019, 07:43 AM)Swordfish1010 Wrote:
(10-30-2019, 06:41 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote: Hm?  Maybe I should listen to that one again?  I just continue to believe that these matters are going to take time, and don't you already believe that usability on lightning seems a bit more technical than onchain?  Anyhow, lightning would be just holding much smaller amounts, anyhow, and probably the vast majority of anyone's bitcoin holdings should be in some cold storage or semi-cold storage mechanisms... especially since we seem to be so early to bitcoin and we should be able to acquire decent wealth that is just kept in cold storage that we might draw from from time to time.


By the way, here's a nice little updated article talking about Schnorr signatures and Taproot, with a couple of embedded videos, too.

An Upcoming Protocol Improvement Could Massively Improve Bitcoin Privacy

It may be a little cumbersome still, but that will change with things like olympus where you can onboard directly from fiat. Also the only really cumbersome part is receiving lightning, not sending it, due to the liquidity requirements.

I am both glad that lots of smart peeps are working on these kinds of matters, and that I am patient.

In the meantime, my bitcoin continues to gain value in cold storage and perhaps easier ways to liquidate are being worked on, on an ongoing basis.

Yeah I was catching up with my old childhood friend last week and I directly said "bitcoin is humbling. I am not that rich, not that smart, and not that important." So many geniuses in this space its insane.

In some sense, the non-genius move becomes kind of genius, but I try NOT to take too much for granted that is for sure.  So overall, I already prepare for BTC's price to go in either direction, and hope for a minimum return that averages at least 6% per year in order to at least stay on par or to out perform my traditional investments that seem to return around 5.5% on average.  Anyhow, there definitely seems to be way more potential than 6% per year, but I have never really counted on it.

Of course, anyone can make mistakes in terms of both getting caught up in shitcoins or getting distracted by quasi-irrelevant arguments that shitcoiners tend to propound without really realizing that is what they are doing with the various kinds of true beliefs of how some of the shitcoins are supposedly better than bitcoin in various ways.

There is a certain realization that in order for a shitcoin, whether it is ethereum, bcash variants (abc or sv), ripple, monero, tron, eos, litecoin, stellar, or any of the other supposed contenders, need to improve upon bitcoin in considerably great ways, maybe 10x improvements in order to really be a meaningful contender.  There is a power in boring.  There is a power in networking effects.  There is a strength that bitcoin has with NOT being easy to change that diptwats nimwits (who might otherwise be really smart people) get distracted into thinking that one of bitcoin's major strengths is actually a weakness), and it is so easy to get distracted into such nonsense through being too smart for your own good.  

Surely, the market is going to speak more, and I think that it is already kind of speaking (which you seem to see that too, swordfish) in terms of the ongoing strength of king daddy in getting a lot of the incentives and the dynamics correct that allow developers, miners and users to freely decide - and to gravitate towards bitcoin's kind of logically sound shelling point... and just let the many scam attempts play out, because there is nothing even close to being on the horizons even though the ethereum pumpers seem to believe that they have something materially meaningful there within that smoke and mirrors with a side pumpening wagon feature.  There is no doubt that it is going to be pumped again, and maybe even have some periods of outperforming bitcoin in the short-term.. which will get many snot-nosed 14 year olds, and maybe even a few BIG named companies quite worked up too in terms of their ongoing confusing nonsense.   hahahahahaha

The thing shitcoiners don't seem to grasp is that "bitcoin maximalists" have all dabbled in shitcoins and learned that they are at best pump and dumps, or worse outright scams. The ICO bubble in 2017 was a horrible moment for the overall space. It was one thing to dabble in shitcoins when they were able to outperform bitcoin in short term gains, but I think there was a certain moral irresponsibility in promoting any of them as they were clearly never going to gain any serious liquidity. We are almost in 2020 now and people STILL have not learned their lessons or their history. We now have institutional investors getting involved who are not going to touch any of that crap. I am most surprised that ethereum is still shilled, as it is an outright scam that will never scale and is centralized af. Ultimately some people are able to take advice from people that have learned through experience, and some people that just refuse to accept that anyone could possibly know better than them and to take their advice. Once I read "the bitcoin standard" by Saifedean late last year it finally clicked about why bitcoin was the only thing that mattered. At this point I started posting about it on RVF and was of course met with stark criticism and hate. Regardless, I have learned that ultimately you can lead horses to water, but you can't make them drink it. I am more on the side of Trace now where I am much more self-selecting with who I discuss this topic with as I want libertarian types on my side and not the socialist scum that makes up most of my generation. We are at the final stages of the altruistic phase of adoption, this next decade is going to be much more competitive. Leading people down the shitcoin path will only benefit people as it will allow them to stack their bitcoin bags bigger. Everyone is a scammer.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - JayJuanGee - 10-30-2019

(10-30-2019, 06:20 PM)Swordfish1010 Wrote:
(10-30-2019, 06:07 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:
(10-30-2019, 05:49 PM)Swordfish1010 Wrote:
(10-30-2019, 07:47 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:
(10-30-2019, 07:43 AM)Swordfish1010 Wrote: It may be a little cumbersome still, but that will change with things like olympus where you can onboard directly from fiat. Also the only really cumbersome part is receiving lightning, not sending it, due to the liquidity requirements.

I am both glad that lots of smart peeps are working on these kinds of matters, and that I am patient.

In the meantime, my bitcoin continues to gain value in cold storage and perhaps easier ways to liquidate are being worked on, on an ongoing basis.

Yeah I was catching up with my old childhood friend last week and I directly said "bitcoin is humbling. I am not that rich, not that smart, and not that important." So many geniuses in this space its insane.

In some sense, the non-genius move becomes kind of genius, but I try NOT to take too much for granted that is for sure.  So overall, I already prepare for BTC's price to go in either direction, and hope for a minimum return that averages at least 6% per year in order to at least stay on par or to out perform my traditional investments that seem to return around 5.5% on average.  Anyhow, there definitely seems to be way more potential than 6% per year, but I have never really counted on it.

Of course, anyone can make mistakes in terms of both getting caught up in shitcoins or getting distracted by quasi-irrelevant arguments that shitcoiners tend to propound without really realizing that is what they are doing with the various kinds of true beliefs of how some of the shitcoins are supposedly better than bitcoin in various ways.

There is a certain realization that in order for a shitcoin, whether it is ethereum, bcash variants (abc or sv), ripple, monero, tron, eos, litecoin, stellar, or any of the other supposed contenders, need to improve upon bitcoin in considerably great ways, maybe 10x improvements in order to really be a meaningful contender.  There is a power in boring.  There is a power in networking effects.  There is a strength that bitcoin has with NOT being easy to change that diptwats nimwits (who might otherwise be really smart people) get distracted into thinking that one of bitcoin's major strengths is actually a weakness), and it is so easy to get distracted into such nonsense through being too smart for your own good.  

Surely, the market is going to speak more, and I think that it is already kind of speaking (which you seem to see that too, swordfish) in terms of the ongoing strength of king daddy in getting a lot of the incentives and the dynamics correct that allow developers, miners and users to freely decide - and to gravitate towards bitcoin's kind of logically sound shelling point... and just let the many scam attempts play out, because there is nothing even close to being on the horizons even though the ethereum pumpers seem to believe that they have something materially meaningful there within that smoke and mirrors with a side pumpening wagon feature.  There is no doubt that it is going to be pumped again, and maybe even have some periods of outperforming bitcoin in the short-term.. which will get many snot-nosed 14 year olds, and maybe even a few BIG named companies quite worked up too in terms of their ongoing confusing nonsense.   hahahahahaha

The thing shitcoiners don't seem to grasp is that "bitcoin maximalists" have all dabbled in shitcoins and learned that they are at best pump and dumps, or worse outright scams.


That is a bit of a funny kind of irony. hahahahaha.

There are so many shitcoiners pumping their crap as if they had just invented something new, and it frequently is some kind of variation of another shitcoin project that had already been tried, or such an insignificant contribution that it is not likely to make much if any difference in the world - but it will be sold as if it were the best thing since sliced bread. hahahaha

(10-30-2019, 06:20 PM)Swordfish1010 Wrote: The ICO bubble in 2017 was a horrible moment for the overall space. It was one thing to dabble in shitcoins when they were able to outperform bitcoin in short term gains, but I think there was a certain moral irresponsibility in promoting any of them as they were clearly never going to gain any serious liquidity.

I kind of agree with what you are saying, but I also have difficulties getting too morally judgmental regarding how various aspects of history played out in terms of suggesting that there was some kind of evil that might need to be stamped out or avoided because factually, the scamming and the hype and the bullshit seems to have had a decent amount of freemarket benefits in terms of attracting a lot of money to the space and sure some of that money is going to find its way around to bitcoin, and there surely were a lot of smart people and smart projects and smart talent that was diverted into the pumping and production of nearly absolute shit, but in the end, it seems almost an inevitable process that happens in the wild wild west, and as the space and regulations develop, then there will be some attempts to crack down on the worse of the scenarios and even may cause some temporary damage to bitcoin, if that is possible, but in the end, bitcoin's survival through that bullshit had caused bitcoin to become stronger in some ways in terms of learning from some of the projects and even being able to absorb any good aspects or to learn not to go down certain roads, too. Even with the money, some folks probably thought that if they threw enough money at some projects, they might be able to pump the project in such a way that causes it to have momentum, but at the same time, some of the pumpers were able to find vehicles that caused them to prosper tremendously while sacrificing a lot of gullible dumb fucks to fail and to refuse to understand how much they were being manipulated by some systems that might have locked up their capital and caused the enriching of already rich scammers while some of those poor people became more poor with their desires and even actions to attempt to become rich (or at least less poor... that might not have worked out too well for a decent number of quasi-innocent people).

(10-30-2019, 06:20 PM)Swordfish1010 Wrote: We are almost in 2020 now and people STILL have not learned their lessons or their history.

I am pretty sure that people are not going to learn, which is quite likely to result in another alt coin season. Of course, it will likely NOT play out exactly in the same way as the last alt coin season, and maybe even some of those folks waiting for an alt coin season are going to end up getting screwed because they end up playing it wrong.. .. and surely many of those folks who get trapped are going to be way under invested in bitcoin, when perhaps more than 80% or more of their value should be in bitcoin, and maybe they either don't have any in bitcoin or they only have a few percentages in bitcoin, and end up getting screwed or at least providing fuel for others. We will see. There are surely going to be some folks that get lucky too because there will be decent money coming into the space and maybe even opportunistically pumping some already existing shitty project or even pumping some new variation of a project that is still shitty, but experiences a decently long period of pumpening. I am not planning to play around with that bullshit, and I am pretty confident that there will be a decent number of guys calling me a dumbass while I am only getting 3x or 8x or even 20x profits while they are making many times more than me, blah blah blah, just like how these smart as fuck folks were behaving in 2017.... and some of those diptwats are still being pumped up as geniuses these days in some bitcoin related threads... and likely to come into this thread too.

(10-30-2019, 06:20 PM)Swordfish1010 Wrote: We now have institutional investors getting involved who are not going to touch any of that crap.

There are plenty of institutional investors who are just as distracted by shitcoins as regular peeps.

(10-30-2019, 06:20 PM)Swordfish1010 Wrote: I am most surprised that ethereum is still shilled, as it is an outright scam that will never scale and is centralized af.

Exactly. Case in point. There are a lot of ethereum believers, and even smart people, so maybe it will pump and maybe it won't. Even though I am not going to invest into it, there might be some folks who are able to play ethereum in such a way that they make way more money than me, and I don't give any shits because I largely agree with you that it is just a heap of pure garbage and mumble jumbo that happens to have decently large marketing that is based on pie in the sky phoney baloney, even if ethereum folks proclaim that there is no marketing happening... and ethereum is the next.. blah blah blah (whatever their new story happens to be).

(10-30-2019, 06:20 PM)Swordfish1010 Wrote: Ultimately some people are able to take advice from people that have learned through experience, and some people that just refuse to accept that anyone could possibly know better than them and to take their advice.


I think that most of us have to plow some of our own path, and some will get burned more than others while learning through experience. Of course, sometimes guys will be able to figure out ways to experience less downside by seeing some of what others have gone through, but in the end, it takes a while to learn various lessons whether the lessons came through bitcoin, shitcoins or other life experiences, investing or otherwise.

(10-30-2019, 06:20 PM)Swordfish1010 Wrote: Once I read "the bitcoin standard" by Saifedean late last year it finally clicked about why bitcoin was the only thing that mattered. At this point I started posting about it on RVF and was of course met with stark criticism and hate.

hahaha Some of those haters are everywhere. Sometimes they do get a BIGGER grasp on certain threads or forums though. The bitcoin topic, too, can be quite polarizing, and sometimes, administrators might neither understand the topic enough or they might even get caught up in shitcoin talking points, so even here, we cannot be sure exactly if some of the administrators or mods might end up chiming into this thread and even temporarily or permanently influencing its direction..and maybe even becoming too receptive to shitcoin talking points that might be less than genuine.. but still appearing genuine on the surface.

(10-30-2019, 06:20 PM)Swordfish1010 Wrote: Regardless, I have learned that ultimately you can lead horses to water, but you can't make them drink it. I am more on the side of Trace now where I am much more self-selecting with who I discuss this topic with as I want libertarian types on my side and not the socialist scum that makes up most of my generation.

It can be a bit funny how each of us evolves in this space, and even Trace has his moments of questionable behavior.... (I mean like sometimes he just seems overly mean about the level of suffering of newbies having to learn, which can come off as a bit elitist)... but of course, he has built a long term reputation as being fighting for the bitcoin cause, and in the end, I think that each of us should attempt to be responsible to engage in as much critical thinking as we are capable of, and sometimes even people who agree on a large number of areas might have some smaller areas in which they come to different conclusions about either objectives or methodology or even an ability to empathize with other people. Of course, also, like you are saying, sometimes we have to be careful in terms of empowering people who are likely just going to act as attack vectors to our ideologies rather than really being genuine folks who are largely acting in good faith.


(10-30-2019, 06:20 PM)Swordfish1010 Wrote: We are at the final stages of the altruistic phase of adoption, this next decade is going to be much more competitive.

Maybe. The space is getting BIGGER in terms of money coming in, and surely some hominess and coziness has gone away, but there will likely always be some needs to attempt to work with the opposition because sometimes people who seem to be enemies are going to come around, and not just faking it either, they genuinely had been fighting the opposite side and realize how dumb that they had been. I do agree that sometimes, though, we do have to hold the bad behaviors of others against them for a long period of time until they actually prove that they are genuinely not engaging in bad behaviors.

(10-30-2019, 06:20 PM)Swordfish1010 Wrote: Leading people down the shitcoin path will only benefit people as it will allow them to stack their bitcoin bags bigger. Everyone is a scammer.


Hahahaha. You admit to being a scammer? I will admit that bitcoin allows incentives that everyone attempts to act in his own interest that allows for the whole to benefit, but gosh there is still some balance in the whole mix.. because acting greedy is likely o.k... just like I can work towards getting rich while promoting bitcoin, while there are levels of going over the line which causes me to no longer someone who is sufficiently playing on the same underlying understood and frequently unwritten rule book.