SwoopTheWorld
The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - Printable Version

+- SwoopTheWorld (https://www.swooptheworld.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Forums (https://www.swooptheworld.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Lifestyle Forum (https://www.swooptheworld.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Thread: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) (/showthread.php?tid=813)



RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - JayJuanGee - 10-19-2019

(10-18-2019, 10:38 PM)billydingdong Wrote:
(10-18-2019, 08:36 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote: Those are bullshit talking points in an attempt to turn a positive into a negative and to attempt to get us to worry about something that is far into the future and super speculative in nature that will become a whole hell of a lot more clear about the dynamics of such short money supply with the passage of time and with the variety of network effects, including how various actors are going to respond in the free market over the coming years, rather than fanciful scare tactic theories.

...

This isn't a 'fanciful scare tactic theory', this is a real risk

Just because you say that it is not a fanciful scare tactic does not mean that it isn't.

Just because you say that it is a "real risk" does not make it a real risk.

I already made my point too, which is a description of an asset that is more scarce than any other asset.

So fucking what?

Maybe you have a certain kind of thing that exists, such as collectible items and there is only one of them, so there is a certain kind of dynamic around those kinds of things and incentives that are built.

In this case, we have something that has 21 million units (aka bitcoins) (or 2,100,000,000,000,000 satoshis). That is all that there are going to be based on a math algorithm, proof of work and cryptography. Again, so fucking what. There is no need to create drama around it merely because this is the first time, ever that digital scarcity had been created. Now, this digital scarcity has also accumulated 7 network effects, too, which causes imitation coins and copy cats to be merely that... less valuable.

People are either going to value bitcoin or they will not. If they do, then the rules are already there about how many units are ever going to be available, and everyone knows the rules and incentives can be created about it. There seems to be almost no need for further drama, except to create an issue out of something that is a non-issue, and I suppose that is the definition of drama.



(10-18-2019, 10:38 PM)billydingdong Wrote: nobody knows what will happen to network security and viability when the current primary means of security compensation via block reward dwindles and goes away.

So fucking what? Doesn't matter. We already know that for the last 10 years, and surely some people do not really know what bitcoin is, so there are guys like you trying to make it into some kind of scary thing, when in fact, people will figure it out after a while. Maybe it will take 50 years to figure it out, but they will. It is pretty simple, except for the bullshit fearmongering trying to confuse people about what it is and to tout out competing (but inferior) copy cats in order to attempt to trick people into something else.. or just screwing up their thinking into fear.

(10-18-2019, 10:38 PM)billydingdong Wrote: The article I linked to outlined quite clearly the benefits of the hard cap but also the vulnerability that this poses as a security model.

Repeating the standard Bitcoin shill talking points 'Bitcoin scarce, look at chart, Bitcoin moon' and handwaving this potential problem as a-okay doesn't challenge the validity of the criticism.

You are speculating about a problem that does not exist, and maybe it could emerge as a problem in 100 or more years, but it is currently not a problem.... You are making shit up, and that is part of the reason for the hand waving of you and your fellow fear mongers.

(10-18-2019, 10:38 PM)billydingdong Wrote: While you may believe the magical properties of a 21m hard cap will likely inspire a continuous cycle of adoption, price appreciation, and that miners will forever continue hashing to secure the network, the fact is that you don't know one way or another...

It does not matter if I know or not. This thing has existed for about 11 years, and people can choose to buy into it or not.... that is their choice.

I started buying 6 years ago, and others started earlier. Of course, there is some incentive to buy early in the event that you believe that the whole system could be successful, or you can wait or you can choose not to buy in. Seems better to buy coins a $8k than it would to buy coins at $100k or more. That is your choice.

There are already incentives that are in place and there is computing power that is way the fuck more powerful than any of the most powerful world computers that are voluntarily engaging their computing power to mine bitcoin.

The fact that bitcoin cannot really be attacked in terms of its computing power causes diptwats to continue to spout out nonsense speculative claims like the ones that you are making which in essence attempts to proclaim that computing power is going to gravitate away from bitcoin as the rewards diminish through the year, but that shit is not happening.

The opposite is happening and continuing to happen, but stupid misinformation fearmongering fucktwats (that you seem to buy their bullshit by spouting it out) are trying to proclaim that the opposite is happening than what is really happening. Problem is that bitcoin continues to attract mining power, and no one is forcing them, but you diptwats are proclaiming that some day in the unspecified future, the miners are going to leave and they are going to stop mining.. and perhaps that is going to happen 120 years from now, and presuming that bitcoin is not going to continue to develop between now and 120 years from now, and therefore it is a disaster waiting to happen. In the meantime, people who actually invest into bitcoin and don't buy your phoney baloney speculation bullshit are likely going to be dead well before 120 years, but also will have become rich as fuck through the process, and also since bitcoin remains a developing process there is no reason to be speculating that the current system is not good enough for what is going to happen 120 years from now, because the ongoing halvening does already take place every 4 years, so if there is a problem there are a lot of 4 year cycles to see if there actually is a problem before merely just speculating about some hypothetical thing that is not a current problem.

(10-18-2019, 10:38 PM)billydingdong Wrote: Not all of us live in fanciful, pie in the sky, magic-land where we close our eyes to real risks. Smile

Don't buy any bitcoin then. And continue to speculate about bullshit that is not likely to be as BIG of a problem as you are making it out to be. We have 120 years to prepare for the supposed problem, and I am sure that if guys would like to get out of their bitcoin investment or to diversify into something else, then they should be able to figure out if reallocation is needed. If you have considered that the risk is currently too "real" and too high for you, then go buy gold or ether or whatever other inferior investment that you want to invest in. No one is stopping you.

(10-18-2019, 10:38 PM)billydingdong Wrote: So the hard cap is good for the narrative and good for adoption but could also possibly turn out to be a critical weakness.

Thanks for warning us. Now bugger off with your pie in the sky fearmongering speculative nonsense.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - billydingdong - 10-19-2019

(10-19-2019, 02:19 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote: There are already incentives that are in place and there is computing power that is way the fuck more powerful than any of the most powerful world computers that are voluntarily engaging their computing power to mine bitcoin.  

The fact that bitcoin cannot really be attacked in terms of its computing power causes diptwats to continue to spout out nonsense speculative claims like the ones that you are making which in essence attempts to proclaim that computing power is going to gravitate away from bitcoin as the rewards diminish through the year,  but that shit is not happening. 

The opposite is happening and continuing to happen, but stupid misinformation fearmongering fucktwats (that you seem to buy their bullshit by spouting it out) are trying to proclaim that the opposite is happening than what is really happening.  Problem is that bitcoin continues to attract mining power, and no one is forcing them, but you diptwats are proclaiming that some day in the unspecified future, the miners are going to leave and they are going to stop mining.. and perhaps that is going to happen 120 years from now, and presuming that bitcoin is not going to continue to develop between now and 120 years from now, and therefore it is a disaster waiting to happen.  In the meantime, people who actually invest into bitcoin and don't buy your phoney baloney speculation bullshit are likely going to be dead well before 120 years, but also will have become rich as fuck through the process, and also since bitcoin remains a developing process there is no reason to be speculating that the current system is not good enough for what is going to happen 120 years from now, because the ongoing halvening does already take place every 4  years, so if there is a problem there are a lot of 4 year cycles to see if there actually is a problem before merely just speculating about some hypothetical thing that is not a current problem.

Forget about 120 years, the miner reward structure is changing dramatically within 10 years. By 2028, miners will earn less than a 10th in terms of payout from what they earn right now — going from 12 to about 1.75.

You say they will figure it out, but that's pure conjecture... Especially when we all know that Bitcoin progress and updates are very slow.

I mean look at how they can't even get Lightning Network operational and secure. Coming since 2016, lol!

I'll stand by my original remark: that it's also fantastical on your end in saying that the miners are going to continue to mine Bitcoin when the primary way that they get paid goes away. It might resolve itself, there might be a solution and they might continue to mine Bitcoin... or the miners may go mine another coin with a permanently low inflation policy that cuts them block rewards in perpetuity.

Adamantly saying things like 'that shit is not happening' makes a lot of Bitcoiners look like desperate shills when they just don't know. Hopefully the brighter noobs don't get swayed by this false sense of certainty.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - JayJuanGee - 10-19-2019

(10-19-2019, 06:56 AM)billydingdong Wrote:
(10-19-2019, 02:19 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote: There are already incentives that are in place and there is computing power that is way the fuck more powerful than any of the most powerful world computers that are voluntarily engaging their computing power to mine bitcoin.  

The fact that bitcoin cannot really be attacked in terms of its computing power causes diptwats to continue to spout out nonsense speculative claims like the ones that you are making which in essence attempts to proclaim that computing power is going to gravitate away from bitcoin as the rewards diminish through the year,  but that shit is not happening. 

The opposite is happening and continuing to happen, but stupid misinformation fearmongering fucktwats (that you seem to buy their bullshit by spouting it out) are trying to proclaim that the opposite is happening than what is really happening.  Problem is that bitcoin continues to attract mining power, and no one is forcing them, but you diptwats are proclaiming that some day in the unspecified future, the miners are going to leave and they are going to stop mining.. and perhaps that is going to happen 120 years from now, and presuming that bitcoin is not going to continue to develop between now and 120 years from now, and therefore it is a disaster waiting to happen.  In the meantime, people who actually invest into bitcoin and don't buy your phoney baloney speculation bullshit are likely going to be dead well before 120 years, but also will have become rich as fuck through the process, and also since bitcoin remains a developing process there is no reason to be speculating that the current system is not good enough for what is going to happen 120 years from now, because the ongoing halvening does already take place every 4  years, so if there is a problem there are a lot of 4 year cycles to see if there actually is a problem before merely just speculating about some hypothetical thing that is not a current problem.

Forget about 120 years, the miner reward structure is changing dramatically within 10 years. By 2028, miners will earn less than a 10th in terms of payout from what they earn right now — going from 12 to about 1.75.

Yes. The overall facts of the decrease in the new issuance of bitcoin is already known, and we are going to see if there is a trend in the direction that you fear, which would be a pulling away of miners and less hashing power directed at the network in such a way to make it vulnerable. If you perceive that the hashing power is not securing the network properly because there are not enough miners to continue to earn enough fees then you can get out of bitcoin or don't go into bitcoin.

You are not even arguing that there is even close to a lack of hashpower currently. You are arguing about a lack of incentives that is largely speculative because the mining reward consists of both the block reward and mining fees and there is already free and voluntary incentive for miners to go to mine bitcoin. Let's see if that mining drops off as you speculate. I doubt it, but you speculate that it will, so let's see. I will buy bitcoin, and you can sit on your hands and yell that the sky is falling (and I will make money in the meantime, along with anyone else investing into bitcoin).


(10-19-2019, 06:56 AM)billydingdong Wrote: You say they will figure it out, but that's pure conjecture... Especially when we all know that Bitcoin progress and updates are very slow.

I am not saying that there is any need for an update. I am saying that the free market can play out, and we will see if the free market causes the price to go up and the fees to go up enough in order to continue to incentivize mining. The attraction has been pretty damned overwhelming up until now, and mining has not been dropping off.

Remember all the bullshit talking points at the last halvening about the mining death spiral that was going to happen in 2016? Oh you probably don't because you are new to bitcoin.... Anyhow, the same bullshit was spouted about miners dropping off, and the opposite happened. In other words, you are arguing based on a premise that miners are incentivized to go away, and the opposite is continuing to happen. In other words, you are full of shit.

(10-19-2019, 06:56 AM)billydingdong Wrote: I mean look at how they can't even get Lightning Network operational and secure. Coming since 2016, lol!

I would not argue that there is anything major wrong with Lightning, which is a second layer to bitcoin. Of course, the more successful it is, then the better it is. The whole matter is somewhat complicated in terms of the ongoing creation of a system that is money, open source, and already acknowledged as being less secure than securing coins on bitcoin's main network. Furthermore, lightning network is an ongoing development that went live in early 2018. And, bitcoin is not some kind of pure systematized thing. There are all kinds of diverse people working on it, and many of the people working on lightning are not the same as those working on bitcoin. You continue to grasp at straws in your desire to attempt to find weaknesses and faults in bitcoin or various systems built upon bitcoin. Those systems built upon bitcoin can fail, and bitcoin will still be alive, so you don't have to use lightning to use bitcoin, but you can, and lightning is continuing to develop and to grow.. but you want to find fault or to exaggerate whatever you and the other bitcoin naysayers want to find. .... yes there are a lot of bitcoin naysayers, and they continue to hope to exaggerate bullshit talking points.

(10-19-2019, 06:56 AM)billydingdong Wrote: I'll stand by my original remark: that it's also fantastical on your end in saying that the miners are going to continue to mine Bitcoin when the primary way that they get paid goes away. It might resolve itself, there might be a solution and they might continue to mine Bitcoin... or the miners may go mine another coin with a permanently low inflation policy that cuts them block rewards in perpetuity.

Yes. Let's see what happens. In the meantime, you can fail and refuse to buy bitcoin because you believe that it is not secure enough for you, even though bitcoin continues to have the most hashing power of any coin or project. None even come close, but you continue to fear that it is going down, while it goes up. Go figure?

You can look at bitcoin's hashrate charts live yourself. Mining is not going down.

https://www.blockchain.com/charts/hash-rate?timespan=all

You can look at other charts including hash rate:

https://twitter.com/themooncarl/status/1184723091064311808?s=20

[Image: EHD7Xo-WoAAEWHF?format=jpg&name=small]


Yes. Some day bitcoin's hashrate might start to come down, and then you can cry out that the sky is falling, even though it is likely to NOT be falling, but you can cry it anyhow.

We will cross that bridge when we get there, which also seems to be unlikely, and I will likely be long dead by the time such day comes, if it does. And, also having had gotten rich from bitcoin in the meantime, while you are crying that it is broken, deficient, or not secure enough... blah blah blah blah blah.

(10-19-2019, 06:56 AM)billydingdong Wrote: Adamantly saying things like 'that shit is not happening'  makes a lot of Bitcoiners look like desperate shills when they just don't know.

The only shill here seems to be you. You are arguing about an event that both has not even happened yet, and you are projecting the direction before it has happened as if it were going to happen. You are assigning a high probability to an event that likely has a very low probability of happening, and acting like your logic makes sense.

(10-19-2019, 06:56 AM)billydingdong Wrote: Hopefully the brighter noobs don't get swayed by this false sense of certainty.

Yes, you are hoping to scare people away with nonsense, and we will see what happens. Currently there is enough hash power in bitcoin to support a much larger bitcoin price. There is excessive hash power and security, but you still want to argue the opposite is happening or likely to happen....

O.k... great.

Let's see. Will the price go up or not? Will people lose their bitcoin's because of lack of security or not? Are they going to get out of bitcoin in time? Isn't liquidity in bitcoin going up, too? All the metrics seem to be going against your ongoing fearmongering arguments, billydingdong, but you want to call me the shill?

I could give any ratt's ass if people get into bitcoin or not. Of course, I post here on a regular basis in order to attempt to share bitcoin related information. Still, only a small amount of the world's population has taken any amount of meaningful stake in bitcoin. Still early days, and developments are going great in bitcoin, so what you going to do billydingdong? You going to take any kind of stake in bitcoin? Or just pump your bullshit talking points? You buying ethereum instead? That is a comparative laugh. If any coin is lacking security or a plan it is ethereum, but you would like to argue that bullshit project is more secure than bitcoin? Come on. Who is the shill? You seem like the shill with a nonsense agenda, and hardly any points that are based in actual reality rather than speculation about some future state of affairs that are not very likely to happen in ways that are even close to the amount of fear, uncertainty and doubt that you are trying to spread.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - JayJuanGee - 10-19-2019

This two and a half hour Youtube interview of Trace Mayer was linked in the RVF bitcoin thread, and I think that it is worthy of a quick reference here.

[video=youtube]https://youtu.be/QF2NTyjAPUo[/video]

The discussion within the video gets into a variety of current events, yet largely Trace continues to suggest that the risk of NOT being in bitcoin is way greater than the prudence of putting some value into bitcoin, even if it is only a small percentage of your overall investments, and in that regard, a lot of folks could end up NOT being sufficiently in bitcoin due their own fears and hesitations rather than just figuring out ways to get in and to make sure that they are comfortable with their bitcoin stake, including the fact that bitcoin is likely part of the largest going transfer of wealth in history in which those holding some BTC and able to secure the BTC that they are able to accumulate (which seems to also be a continued practice that people should be considering with long term, rather than short term visions regarding their investment into BTC).


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - Swordfish1010 - 10-19-2019

(10-18-2019, 06:43 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:
(10-18-2019, 06:32 AM)Swordfish1010 Wrote:
(10-18-2019, 05:56 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:
(10-18-2019, 05:30 AM)Swordfish1010 Wrote: I am excited for my new mk3 cold card wallet to get here. Going to be sweet. Wasabi wallet + full node + cold card = cypherpunk goodness. I am going to give opendimes with $50 worth of BTC to each family member too for christmas.


Have you used open dimes before?  They are about $10 each?  Or maybe if you buy in bulk they might average out lower?
I am asking because I am wondering about the practicality of spending about $10 on something that you only put $50 of value?   
You can add value to them in the future?  Is it that the public address is watchable and available, so you can keep adding to it, but once you break into the private key then the device is pretty much no longer usable?

Lots of bitcoin twitter who I view highly upon are always shilling them so I decided to buy 6. They are a great way to get people into it. I wouldn't store large amounts on them for obvious reasons as the private key is encrypted until you puncture through it with a pin when ready to  spend/move it. this decrypts the private key and you can move it into a wallet or whatever. It teaches the cypherpunk ethos by default, which is pretty cool. Basically treat it like cash, i.e. if you lose it you are sol.

Yeah, but can you keep adding to it?

Let's say you give one to your mom, dad, three siblings and significant other.... hahahahaha.. or some variation.

Then if they want to add value to it once a month, or once in a while or more realistically, you add value every christmas as long as you are still on talking terms, then you can without breaking into the private key?

Again, I understand that there is a lack of a back-up, so that is likely a problem in some circumstances, but still if they cost $10 each, that seems a bit much, too?  I frequently think in terms of percentage (costs versus value), so I could understand if your costs are less than 5% of the value on the device, but i have a bit more practical acceptance if the device is costing 25% of the value contained thereon.

Regarding trezors, I tend to suggest  that someone have at least a couple thousand dollars before it becomes really practical for them to buy a trezor, which is more than $100.  Actually, the Trezor is wonderful for managing the value, but of course, much more costly than an open dime.
Yeah I will add to it each christmas. I always tell noobs to control their own keys but they always keep it on coinbase lol. Oh well better than nothing I guess.

Anyone else run a full node here?


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - ChicagoFire - 10-20-2019

I'm going to chime in a bit more on this thread. There's certain reasons why I have to get up to speed on crypto so just dropping by to say hi!


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - JayJuanGee - 10-20-2019

(10-20-2019, 04:04 AM)ChicagoFire Wrote: I'm going to chime in a bit more on this thread. There's certain reasons why I have to get up to speed on crypto so just dropping by to say hi!

I look forward to your posts in this thread, ChicagoFire, and even newbie questions and perhaps considerations regarding how much bitcoin you are thinking to buy or even to sell and maybe what kinds of strategies to use to attempt to accumulate bitcoin or even thoughts about how much bitcoin that you might want to put in your overall investment portfolio, in terms of percentages.  

For opsec or personal privacy reasons, you don't really need to discuss actual numbers or amounts if you do not want to... that is your choice.    For example, frequently, I might discuss something like a hypothetical budget that someone might have (or even referring to my own situation) or a hypothetical investment timeline in order to attempt to brainstorm about some possible BTC allocation and/or BTC accumulation strategies, even though ultimately the final decisions are going to be each of ours and hopefully you would not be looking for anyone to tell you in any kind of way how to invest  (you don't really seem like that kind of guy, anyhow).

Also, remember that this continues to be a bitcoin thread.  Even though bitcoin might be considered within the category of "crypto" it would be off topic in this thread if you were to be bringing up other coins and supposed crypto projects without at least attempting to make some genuinely decent striving towards connecting the subject of your post to bitcoin.  

So far, there is another STW thread that seems to be more generally accepting about crypto and/or any crypto topics, and I personally prefer to keep discussion of shitcoins to a minimum in this particular thread in order to attempt to keep our thinking more clearly directed about bitcoin related matters and hopefully keep some of the shit coin/ico pumpeningers, no coiners, bitcoin naysayers and other related riff raff out... to the extent feasibly possible...  hahahahaha or maybe you might want to consider your own thread if there happens to be some other crypto or something like that you might believe is worthy of its own thread for some reason but it is not necessarily so much of a bitcoin related topic.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - Swordfish1010 - 10-20-2019

(10-20-2019, 04:04 AM)ChicagoFire Wrote: I'm going to chime in a bit more on this thread. There's certain reasons why I have to get up to speed on crypto so just dropping by to say hi!

bitcoin, not crypto. not your keys, not your coins. store them offline on a hardware wallet. start here: https://nakamotoinstitute.org/

if you have an android device, you can install "abcore" on it to run a full node easily. this allows you to trust no one and verify everything yourself.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - ChicagoFire - 10-20-2019

(10-20-2019, 05:10 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote: snip

Yes, I should have clarified and it will better help me to just stick to bitcoin on this thread. I've accumulated all my coins through brokerages or by trading for others. I am very lucky to have done my trading before Congress made that law that would have taxed my trades. I never mined any and unless things have changed it's not worth it to mine them since electricity is expensive. Yes I already have a wallet and I had a scare where I forgot my password about a year ago...it's been a while since I checked on my crypto in general so I need to do that next week. I'm on the fence about purchasing a safe or a safety deposit box. Money definitely changes your mind.

My investing strategy is a mix of HODL and sell. I've already made it clear that if I was in another state I would probably sell bitcoin once it reaches a certain value. I will then keep the rest. I have made purchases when bitcoin was at $700 per coin and if I were to sell now it would be my best ROI investment of all time. On the flip side if Bitcoin hits $0 well then we all look like goofs.

Where do you all get your information? I've read Triangle Investing by Wallstreetplayboys and one of their warnings about crypto is the information is outdated. I just don't have time to read about bitcoin every day.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - JayJuanGee - 10-20-2019

(10-20-2019, 06:17 PM)ChicagoFire Wrote:
(10-20-2019, 05:10 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote: snip

Yes, I should have clarified and it will better help me to just stick to bitcoin on this thread. I've accumulated all my coins through brokerages or by trading for others. I am very lucky to have done my trading before Congress made that law that would have taxed my trades.

I think that the various tax implications of bitcoin remains somewhat confusing, and surely, there could be some needs to consult with various accounting or legal professionals in terms of whether your accounting is reasonable and/or whether laws or clarifications are clear, ambiguous, or meant to be retroactive or only future oriented in their applicability.  Furthermore jurisdictions of members here might be different too in terms of how bitcoin transactions might be treated.  There was a clarification in early 2014 that for the most, part, for tax purposes, bitcoin is supposed to be treated as capital gains, so there could be some questions about whether that clarification would have gone back further, to the extent that any of us would have been trading or transacting in bitcoin prior to that particular clarification.   I find the clarification about forks from this week to be confusing as fuck, and I don't see how any guy could reasonably going back to calculate value on forks that he may or may not have had access to such fruits of the fork.


(10-20-2019, 06:17 PM)ChicagoFire Wrote: I never mined any and unless things have changed it's not worth it to mine them since electricity is expensive.

Probably pre-2015 or so there were times in which smaller mining operations might have been able to profit without having to join mining pools (I am not even suggesting that mining pools are necessarily profitable, even back then), but I think that even then there would have been considerable evidence that spending money on just buying BTC rather than mining BTC would have been more profitable than mining, and without as many headaches.  Of course, some guys want to get involved in mining for other reasons, such as interacting with bitcoin on a more technical level or maybe learning more about other advantages that might come from running your own mining rig or learning about how those processes work, whether out of privacy or security concerns or just nuts and bolts tinkering aspirations.

(10-20-2019, 06:17 PM)ChicagoFire Wrote: Yes I already have a wallet and I had a scare where I forgot my password about a year ago...it's been a while since I checked on my crypto in general so I need to do that next week.
I agree that probably it is a good housekeeping practice to check on your coins once in a while, maybe at minimum of a couple times a year, in the event that you have them in cold storage.  Not only would you want to verify that the coins are still there, but that your abilities to access them are clear in your head or whereever you might have your access information written down.  

I know that sometimes, too, there might be some thoughts that need to be given  regarding whether your method of securing your coins is either good for you or if you actualoy have access to your keys versus keeping them with a custodian, and if the trade offs are acceptable to you.


(10-20-2019, 06:17 PM)ChicagoFire Wrote: I'm on the fence about purchasing a safe or a safety deposit box. Money definitely changes your mind.

If I understand what you are saying, there would be more value in considering various other storage and/or security options that might vary depending on the amount of value you are securing.  I recall that during the 2017 price rise, I had some locations of coins that I thought to be relatively trivial amounts of coins.  Maybe I had put them there when BTC prices were $250 or something like that, and when BTC prices went to nearly $20k, there became a decent amount of sensitivity that something that had gained nearly 100x in value was no longer a trivial amount of value.  

(10-20-2019, 06:17 PM)ChicagoFire Wrote: My investing strategy is a mix of HODL and sell.

O.k.  You seem to be a bit more advanced in your progression than what i had assumed from your earlier post.  Surely, the earlier stages of BTC involvement and learning will involve accumulation and thereafter maintenance, and sometimes selling does not come into the picture until after a decent amount of accumulation has occurred.

Also, your confidence in BTC as a longer term investment can affect your thoughts regarding what stages you are in, particularly on a personal level.  Surely, you asserted that you would prefer to avoid some extra state taxation in which you might be relieved of some or all of that if you change jurisdictions, which surely can be a prudent consideration.

(10-20-2019, 06:17 PM)ChicagoFire Wrote: I've already made it clear that if I was in another state I would probably sell bitcoin once it reaches a certain value. I will then keep the rest. I have made purchases when bitcoin was at $700 per coin and if I were to sell now it would be my best ROI investment of all time.

You might have average costs per BTC that are very similar to mine, even though at one point I had gotten my average cost per BTC into the low $300s; however, my average cost per BTC went up quite a bit from a sims porting incident that I had experienced in early 2017, and then other various mistakes that I made to cause my average cost per BTC to go up considerably.

Of course, there are likely some guys who are just learning about BTC, so if they are just getting started, they have to consider whether buying at $8k-ish is a good idea, which I would suggest that it is, especially if such guys have  not taken any stake in BTC.  The more of a stake that a guy has established, then the more he might have to weigh other investments and his timeline and various other personal matters involving cashflow and how much time and efforts he would like to spend to attempt to figure out bitcoin and to invest into it or even to actively invest and study on a fairly regular basis.


(10-20-2019, 06:17 PM)ChicagoFire Wrote: On the flip side if Bitcoin hits $0 well then we all look like goofs.

There are always risks that various aspects of Bitcoin could cause it to fail or to go to zero, but there is also the Lindy effect, which suggests that the longer that some asset or innovation is in existence, then the stronger it becomes.  

Furthermore, I have personally considered bitcoin to be a relatively strong asymmetric bet, so if you invest into bitcoin, and you don't get into much gambling by engaging in leveraging-type practices, then you could consider that the most that you could lose is 100% of your investment, while the upside potential of bitcoin remains many multiples higher than your initial investment... and even based on decently strong fundamentals, and a lot of the major attack vectors were resolved in 2017 - even though there still are a lot of exaggerated and overblown fear mongering regarding supposed continued ongoing threats to bitcoin and its long term profitability potentials.


(10-20-2019, 06:17 PM)ChicagoFire Wrote: Where do you all get your information? I've read Triangle Investing by Wallstreetplayboys and one of their warnings about crypto is the information is outdated. I just don't have time to read about bitcoin every day.

Let me know if you want any further information from me.   Besides Swordfish's response above, and his linked information, less than a week ago, I posted a response to pretty much similar questions from Nulled.

I don't mind providing more specifics, besides what is in that post, but guys here should also be attempting to engage with some of the information already provided and provide some of their own information that might allow for better abilities to bounce off of bitcoin related information or even inquiries that other guys direct.  For example, if a guy listens to a bitcoin related podcast, or reads an article, and the bitcoin information seems confusing or contradictory, then we surely should be able to bounce that kind of information around in this thread.  There tends to be a decent amount of misinformation out there too, that we can sometimes discuss to the extent that there is any kind of actual meaning in respect to what is going on with bitcoin rather than merely some scam project pumpening attempt or the promulgation of a scam project or nonsensical bitcoin bashing talking points.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - ChicagoFire - 10-21-2019

@JJG 

Quote:Of course, there are likely some guys who are just learning about BTC, so if they are just getting started, they have to consider whether buying at $8k-ish is a good idea, which I would suggest that it is, especially if such guys have  not taken any stake in BTC. 
I've met people that were iffy even when the coin was at $700. You already mentioned bitcoin can hit multipliers and I whole heartedly agree. If that $50 you invested into a $700 coin suddenly turned into a $100K coin would that be a smart investment or what? Obviously nobody is telling you to gamble your home equity on a risky asset so invest in an amount you're comfortable with losing. 

I currently live in Illinois so part of my principle is I'm not giving tax money to a failed state. They may get me on sales tax, gas tax, but not through my crypto money. 

Re: last paragraph. Yes, I need to do some more light reading. I haven't read this thread or the one on Roosh's forum that thoroughly. I'm about to drop you a PM.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - JayJuanGee - 10-21-2019

(10-21-2019, 01:34 PM)ChicagoFire Wrote: @JJG 

Quote:Of course, there are likely some guys who are just learning about BTC, so if they are just getting started, they have to consider whether buying at $8k-ish is a good idea, which I would suggest that it is, especially if such guys have  not taken any stake in BTC. 
I've met people that were iffy even when the coin was at $700. You already mentioned bitcoin can hit multipliers and I whole heartedly agree.

The main point that I was attempting to make was that upside potential for non leveraged investing into bitcoin seems to have greater payoff potential than the amount that any guys invest. So, yeah, even the possibility of losing 100%, any guy should be considering that, and should be considering that he could lose everything that he invests into bitcoin. I do think that the odds of BTC going to zero are quite a bit lower than they were even when I got into bitcoin in late 2013, but going to zero is not a non-zero probability.

On the other hand, there are a lot of scenarios that bitcoin can go up multiples, of 2x, 5x, 10x, 100x, 1000x, or some other. Of course, since we are currently dealing with much larger numbers than we were in 2011 through 2013, the extremes of the multiplier numbers are not likely to be even close to the multiplier numbers that were possible in those earlier days, yet the risks of going to zero or even having major-ass periods of price depression seem to be much smaller too.

Over the years, we have been able to recognize more and more that there are some BTC price dynamics patterns that can be seen and have become much more understandable to broader segments of people who are buying into bitcoin but we surely cannot rely on those patterns playing out with any kind of precision - even when they seem to kind of play out even when BIGGER plays seem to want to manipulate the shit and to attempt to achieve another pattern and to trick HODLers out of their coins or to trick newbies and fence sitters into buying less, buying some shitcoin or not buying BTC at all.

Surely, we have to concede that there continues to be more pump potential in shitcoins, but I have real difficulties sleeping well in shitcoins as compared with sleeping in bitcoin... Guys are surely going to vary, including having way more tolerance for gambling than me, and some of those guys will actually do better than me in their gambling with shitcoins, especially in the short term, but I would conjecture that a heavily gambling mindset is likely going to cause guys to perform less well in the longer term - especially if they are unwilling or unable to give up on their gambling (and sometimes they don't even think that they are gambling) while they are in reasonably prudent and high profits. There is a kind of never satisfied striving for more and more and more (aka greed) that is likely to make excessive gambling strategies to become less sustainable and profitable in the longer run, especially with the violent and frequently irrational price moves of both bitcoin and other crypto (aka shitcoins).


(10-21-2019, 01:34 PM)ChicagoFire Wrote: If that $50 you invested into a $700 coin suddenly turned into a $100K coin would that be a smart investment or what?

I surely do not count on those kinds of high numbers, even though they are within the realm of what appears to be reasonable possibilities. My personal bitcoin investing philosophy has always been to keep in mind the various high upside possibilities and even to have decent plans for those crazy ass possible upside possibilities, but to keep my expectation relatively low, like for example planning for returns of about an average of about 6% to 12% per year, and even being prepared for returns that are quite less than my ordinary return levels. So even during 2014 (in the -20% to -40% arena), 2015 (in the -50% to -65% arena), 1st half of 2016 (in the -30% to +20% arena), and 2nd half of 2016 (in the +30% to the 0% to the +100% arena) I tended to be quite in the red more than I was in positive territory, but I continued to attempt to stay with my longer term thinking of buying and accumulating BTC through dollar cost averaging and buying on dips, but it sometimes becomes very difficult to continue to buy when the price drops after you buy, you cannot really get a good intellectual grasp for where the bottom is and there is a lot of negative sentiment, including negative information being spouted off on a regular basis... and even some simultaneous pumpenings of shitcoin projects that are both claiming to be superior to bitcoin and even sometimes showing pumpening potential that can distract guys out of their bitcoin.

(10-21-2019, 01:34 PM)ChicagoFire Wrote: Obviously nobody is telling you to gamble your home equity on a risky asset so invest in an amount you're comfortable with losing. 

I am not asserting that guys might not be extremely advantaged by engaging in some leveraging, including taking out loans to invest in bitcoin, but bitcoin history has shown that you really don't have to leverage in order to do quite well in bitcoin. I think that even into the future, you can still have really good returns on bitcoin without having to leverage.

If guys have their finances in order otherwise, then leveraging can be a very powerful tool to multiply earnings, but any kinds of leveraging do add risk dynamics that might end up causing a winning bet to become a losing bet if they leverage is not played well or if some luck or well considered strategies and back up plans are not on your side. For example, historically, especially starting in about 2000, I started to systematically use 0% interest credit card promotional cash advances to increase my own liquidity, and I would frequently roll one into another, and surely in recent times, some of those are no longer completely 0%, so they might have a 3% to 5% fee, but there are still ways that those can be played to your advantage to keep your cashflow high, but you need to be able to have several ways (and likely backup ways too) to pay them back when they balloon or even if something goes wrong along the way, including if they start dicking around with you in the middle of the loan, and all of those kinds of things had happened to me over the years.... so sometimes cashflow can become screwed up for a variety of reasons, and of course, guys with more money are more easily able to juggle a lot of debt if they are otherwise solvent. Problems can come with guys who are NOT quite to a level of solvency to handle juggling as much debt as they attempt to juggle, and then they end up gambling and getting played rather than being the player.

(10-21-2019, 01:34 PM)ChicagoFire Wrote: I currently live in Illinois so part of my principle is I'm not giving tax money to a failed state. They may get me on sales tax, gas tax, but not through my crypto money. 

You surely have touched on that a few times, and surely if there are practical ways that you can avoid some of the taxes, then that is a good thing. I am like you in some of those ways in that I try to minimize my fees to as much of an extent as I can, but sometimes it might not be practical to avoid too much taxes, if it might be costing you more in other ways, so sometimes, you might be in a position in which you have to suck up some of the taxes in order to play around with your money, because you might not yet be sufficiently set up in order to make the geographical move, and also sometimes if you are having trouble figuring out reasonable ways to account for your taxes properly, then penalties can end up costing you way the fuck more than it would have just to have made a more prompt accounting of the taxes. Tax authorities can be bitches sometimes, and I have had some issues with some business related filings in the past, and surely sometimes, they have relieved me of my burden when I gave adequate and reasonable responses, but sometimes I have also been stuck with quite exorbitant penalties for missing filing deadlines and things like that, even when there would have not been any tax due, I have ended up with extreme penalties for some of that.. .which can be quite aggravating, but it is a part of modern living too, and we just have to sometimes figure out ways around it, including sometimes changing location or even getting out of some kinds of businesses that have those kinds of filing requirements.


(10-21-2019, 01:34 PM)ChicagoFire Wrote: Re: last paragraph. Yes, I need to do some more light reading. I haven't read this thread or the one on Roosh's forum that thoroughly. 

When you are learning, sometimes you don't know what you do not know, but I doubt that there is any meaningful need to read all the way through either this thread or the RVF bitcoin thread. Of course, this one is much shorter, and with more recent information.

Usually, when I come across a new bitcoin related podcast, then i will listen to the more recent months of that podcast before I go back to the historical editions. Surely, some of bitcoin's history is important to know in order to understand some of the current happenings, yet with anything in life, sometimes it is better to begin to act on incomplete information and to learn as we go, too.

(10-21-2019, 01:34 PM)ChicagoFire Wrote: I'm about to drop you a PM.

Ok. Fair enough. Sometimes some personal information is not necessary to share in the public thread... although when possible, I would prefer to post most of the discussion publicly (of course not the stuff that might be too personally sensitive) in order to: 1) attempt to avoid some repetition, 2) sometimes other guys might be able to chime in on the shared information and/or 3) other guys might be able to get some advantages from the shared information.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - Swordfish1010 - 10-21-2019

(10-21-2019, 01:34 PM)ChicagoFire Wrote: @JJG 

Quote:Of course, there are likely some guys who are just learning about BTC, so if they are just getting started, they have to consider whether buying at $8k-ish is a good idea, which I would suggest that it is, especially if such guys have  not taken any stake in BTC. 
I've met people that were iffy even when the coin was at $700. You already mentioned bitcoin can hit multipliers and I whole heartedly agree. If that $50 you invested into a $700 coin suddenly turned into a $100K coin would that be a smart investment or what? Obviously nobody is telling you to gamble your home equity on a risky asset so invest in an amount you're comfortable with losing. 

I currently live in Illinois so part of my principle is I'm not giving tax money to a failed state. They may get me on sales tax, gas tax, but not through my crypto money. 

Re: last paragraph. Yes, I need to do some more light reading. I haven't read this thread or the one on Roosh's forum that thoroughly. I'm about to drop you a PM.
arent you dodging on your student loans too? lol


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - JayJuanGee - 10-21-2019

I looked back at some of the posts that I had made in the past few days, and I cannot recall whether I had already posted something about this October 18th tweet.

https://twitter.com/crypto_rand/status/1185153415875321859


[Image: EHKCvxVXUAEjvzR?format=png&name=small]

Anyhow, I think that the tweet makes a decent point regarding how each BTC halvening is reducing bitcoin's supply down by half, but at the same time, the half is worth multiples more than the previous halvening halves.

Not a difficult concept, but surely an interesting illustration of the power of early adoption, exponential growth and digital scarcity.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - Swordfish1010 - 10-21-2019

(10-21-2019, 06:35 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote: I looked back at some of the posts that I had made in the past few days, and I cannot recall whether I had already posted something about this October 18th tweet.

https://twitter.com/crypto_rand/status/1185153415875321859


[Image: EHKCvxVXUAEjvzR?format=png&name=small]

Anyhow, I think that the tweet makes a decent point regarding how each BTC halvening is reducing bitcoin's supply down by half, but at the same time, the half is worth multiples more than the previous halvening halves.

Not a difficult concept, but surely an interesting illustration of the power of early adoption, exponential growth and digital scarcity.
planb coming in hot with his quant work regarding stock to flow was huge. All his quant friends are in bitcoin, that is bullish af.

Lol I finally got banned from RVF. Good riddance.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - JayJuanGee - 10-22-2019

(10-21-2019, 11:43 PM)Swordfish1010 Wrote:
(10-21-2019, 06:35 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote: I looked back at some of the posts that I had made in the past few days, and I cannot recall whether I had already posted something about this October 18th tweet.

https://twitter.com/crypto_rand/status/1185153415875321859


[Image: EHKCvxVXUAEjvzR?format=png&name=small]

Anyhow, I think that the tweet makes a decent point regarding how each BTC halvening is reducing bitcoin's supply down by half, but at the same time, the half is worth multiples more than the previous halvening halves.

Not a difficult concept, but surely an interesting illustration of the power of early adoption, exponential growth and digital scarcity.
planb coming in hot with his quant work regarding stock to flow was huge. All his quant friends are in bitcoin, that is bullish af.

Lol I finally got banned from RVF. Good riddance.

Regarding stock to flow, yes that has been a pretty hot topic recently, and there does seem to be topics that flow in bitcoin and sometimes even common shill or trolling topics that seem to come in talking point patterns, too.

Regarding RVF, I had appreciated your participation in the Bitcoin thread over there, and after doing a quick glance at your most recent RVF posts, I did not see any posts that struck me as problematic, but I suppose that you might know better than me if you had certain thematic issues with Roosh or maybe you had been suspended or warned previously for certain conduct.  

I have not been participating too much, over there, in too many other threads, especially anything relationship related in which I might feel compelled to say something that is in breach of current rules - which surely is a shame, given what seemed to had been the prior culture (prior to June 2019 at least, if not having to go further back).

So, it probably helps to stay out of confrontations, but I suppose sometimes if you are banned then that could be a kind of blessing in disguise if you were not really feeling comfortable with the kinds of posts that you had been seeing over there, which could really be a spark.  There are actually a few members (who I will currently keep as nameless) who have posted certain kinds of things that I have found quite repelling, and I just bit my tongue because I did not feel like I really needed to say anything and create a confrontation when I have better things to think about, including level of richness coming from my bitcoin investment... hahahahahahaha


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - Swordfish1010 - 10-22-2019

(10-22-2019, 01:35 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:
(10-21-2019, 11:43 PM)Swordfish1010 Wrote:
(10-21-2019, 06:35 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote: I looked back at some of the posts that I had made in the past few days, and I cannot recall whether I had already posted something about this October 18th tweet.

https://twitter.com/crypto_rand/status/1185153415875321859


[Image: EHKCvxVXUAEjvzR?format=png&name=small]

Anyhow, I think that the tweet makes a decent point regarding how each BTC halvening is reducing bitcoin's supply down by half, but at the same time, the half is worth multiples more than the previous halvening halves.

Not a difficult concept, but surely an interesting illustration of the power of early adoption, exponential growth and digital scarcity.
planb coming in hot with his quant work regarding stock to flow was huge. All his quant friends are in bitcoin, that is bullish af.

Lol I finally got banned from RVF. Good riddance.

Regarding stock to flow, yes that has been a pretty hot topic recently, and there does seem to be topics that flow in bitcoin and sometimes even common shill or trolling topics that seem to come in talking point patterns, too.

Regarding RVF, I had appreciated your participation in the Bitcoin thread over there, and after doing a quick glance at your most recent RVF posts, I did not see any posts that struck me as problematic, but I suppose that you might know better than me if you had certain thematic issues with Roosh or maybe you had been suspended or warned previously for certain conduct.  

I have not been participating too much, over there, in too many other threads, especially anything relationship related in which I might feel compelled to say something that is in breach of current rules - which surely is a shame, given what seemed to had been the prior culture (prior to June 2019 at least, if not having to go further back).

So, it probably helps to stay out of confrontations, but I suppose sometimes if you are banned then that could be a kind of blessing in disguise if you were not really feeling comfortable with the kinds of posts that you had been seeing over there, which could really be a spark.  There are actually a few members (who I will currently keep as nameless) who have posted certain kinds of things that I have found quite repelling, and I just bit my tongue because I did not feel like I really needed to say anything and create a confrontation when I have better things to think about, including level of richness coming from my bitcoin investment... hahahahahahaha

The forum got really blue pilled, I got a big warning for saying that promoting finding “the one” and marrying her was blue pill advice leading his followers towards the road to hell. Then I got tired of the constant fud in the bitcoin thread by the uneducated plebs. Roosh is just mad that I am way more successful than him and refused to bow down to him. I feel bad for him really, he’s clearly struggling and holding onto his following thinking it really means anything. The final straw was me trolling some boomer that thought bonds were risk free and bitcoin was purely speculation. Basically I was trying to get banned after the new rule changes lol. I am a free man, fuck roosh thinking he can censor me.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - JayJuanGee - 10-22-2019

(10-22-2019, 03:29 AM)Swordfish1010 Wrote: The forum got really blue pilled, I got a big warning for saying that promoting finding “the one” and marrying her was blue pill advice leading his followers towards the road to hell.

I am not sure if I take any sides regarding the blue pill versus red pill dichotomy, but I understand what you are saying.. and I cannot really agree with any kind of oneitis kind of focus, even though something like that could work out for guys. I kind of characterize myself as a serial monogomist, but I also kind of get worn out by most girls after a couple of years.... and frequently even the girl recognizes that there remains some gaming that is involved in even monogomist relationships.

(10-22-2019, 03:29 AM)Swordfish1010 Wrote: Then I got tired of the constant fud in the bitcoin thread by the uneducated plebs.

I doubt that the FUD of the RVF bitcoin thread is any worse than any other bitcoin thread. There seems to be a constant need to battle the FUDsters in bitcoinlandia. If anyone remembers the intensity of that thread in 2016/2017, there were only a few of us who were sticking up for bitcoin. There were quite a few guys trying to pump other coins, some guys wanting to change the name of the thread, many guys telling me that no one there liked me because, in part presumably, of my tendency to be adamant about bitcoin and sticking to the topic, and there must have been at least 10 guys who unrepped me.. I had gotten up to about 70 and then fell back into the upper 50s.... hahahahahahahaha... and subsequently slowly gaining some of those rep points back... hahahahaha

Anyhow, there seems to be quite a bit of nonsense in the shilling and even likelihood of guys being paid. I think that some of the guys had some kind of slack channel or something in which they can pump their bullshit. There were other RVF crypto threads too in which it seemed that a few RVF guys (while the hype lasted - a year or more) were just trying to get a pumpening following or some of those kinds of phoney baloney bordering on scam bullshit behaviors.. I surely was not even interested, even though some guys had suggested that I participate in some of those kinds of threads, I was happy with my apparently mediocre 78x return on my bitcoins (of course, the 78x was at the peak, but you likely realize what I am saying in terms of other guys complaining that bitcoin was not returning enough.. blah blah blah.. nonsense).

(10-22-2019, 03:29 AM)Swordfish1010 Wrote: Roosh is just mad that I am way more successful than him and refused to bow down to him. I feel bad for him really, he’s clearly struggling and holding onto his following thinking it really means anything.

Yes. It seems fairly clear that there have likely been some financial difficulties with aspects of roosh's model, at least in terms of monetizing game. So, yeah, going down any businessman path is not easy, and probably even more stressful when monetization of that area is tied to politics and things like that, which runs risks in drying up. Also hard to monetize fighting the man too, but there are surely life choices there. I had always been tempted by traveling in my youth, and I was able to do some of that, but I was able to get in a considerable number of years of pretty decent pay that had partly been luck, too, because I had never really intended to pursue money.

I know that there are quite a few guys who frown on college, but even when I was in college, I was a lot less money oriented than many of my colleagues who wanted to get in and out and get out there and make money. I had consistently engaged in a much slower investment approach, and even though I was starting to fill somewhat set in 2013/2014, even when I started to invest into bitcoin, but holy moly bitcoin was surely a stroke of luck, too, in terms of multiplying the cushion that I had already thought that I had created for myself. So anyhow, if I can get some of my business in order, I will be traveling quite a bit in the coming years, and it seems a lot easier to do that with money, but we will see.


(10-22-2019, 03:29 AM)Swordfish1010 Wrote: The final straw was me trolling some boomer that thought bonds were risk free and bitcoin was purely speculation.

Oh? that was in the RVF bitcoin thread, no?

I thought your comments were within bounds, but perhaps that was the straw that broke the camel's back, especially if you had already been running into various kinds of warnings and things like that. I recall that I had received warnings and suspensions, and if you start to receive too many of them in a row, then the older ones might still be on your record when the new one kicks in, so the threshold for banning or whatever becomes lower.

(10-22-2019, 03:29 AM)Swordfish1010 Wrote: Basically I was trying to get banned after the new rule changes lol. I am a free man, fuck roosh thinking he can censor me.

I suppose that is understanding. It's not a good feeling if you cannot express yourself, and likely some of those relationship rules are going to either get guys into trouble (in terms of breaking rules), or they might even purposefully lash out because they feel some frustration over the rule changes, too.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - Swordfish1010 - 10-22-2019

True, there is fud everywhere. It is so misunderstood still. Well hit me up when you start traveling, I’m planning on starting in January probably in Asia since it will be cold in Europe at that time, I’d grab beers and chase girls with you for sure.


RE: The Bitcoin Thread (price and other bitcoin related topics) - Swordfish1010 - 10-22-2019

Also jjg, in regards to traveling, the fold app is adding Airbnb soon. Stack sats while traveling!