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Living abroad and your Resume - Blake2 - 01-16-2021

So, after a certain amount of time abroad has passed it becomes difficult to get employment/education in your home country.


How are you supposed to explain a multi-year stint teaching abroad? How do you explain places that have a certain Third world stigma attached to them (Thailand, Ukraine, Columbia, etc)?

I have been advised to take an entry level position for a couple months (ex office assistant type stuff) to get in-country recommendation letters.

Any other tips, ideas, advice? At some point it seems non-viable and best to stay put unless you have a well thought out and specific plan.


RE: Living abroad and your Resume - Suits - 01-16-2021

It's an interesting question. Generally the advice I've observed being shared that seemed the most credible is that there is usually a transition period when someone wants to "move back" where they might have to take whatever job is available to them for 6 months to a year, but then better opportunities generally come along.

One can alleviate the risk of this by doing an online MA while abroad or working on a side business that sounds respectable. Writing a book or two (provided that it isn't fiction) probably wouldn't hurt as well.


RE: Living abroad and your Resume - Contrarian Expatriate - 01-16-2021

Last time I checked, teaching (whether it is English as a second language or any other subject) is a widely respected endeavor.   Seems to me the key is HOW you present it on your resume.  If you come off as some vagabond hippy who lives hand to mouth by taking teaching gigs, it will not look good.  But if you make it come off as though you are a serious, professional educator of English to foreigners, it would look wonderful. 

Yes, some countries do look better than others because of stigma, so just be prepared to answer questions as to WHY you chose to work in those particular countries so you can rebut any nefarious presumptions.  Women and resentful married men often love any reason to look their noses down at male travelers as sex tourists.

Consider doing temp work, an internship, or formal study to fold you back into the pipeline of the job market.


RE: Living abroad and your Resume - OviOs - 01-16-2021

(01-16-2021, 03:08 PM)Blake2 Wrote: So, after a certain amount of time abroad has passed it becomes difficult to get employment/education in your home country.


How are you supposed to explain a multi-year stint teaching abroad? How do you explain places that have a certain Third world stigma attached to them (Thailand, Ukraine, Columbia, etc)?

I have been advised to take an entry level position for a couple months (ex office assistant type stuff) to get in-country recommendation letters.

Any other tips, ideas, advice? At some point it seems non-viable and best to stay put unless you have a well thought out and specific plan.

Pretty sure I've mentioned this on the forum but entry-level IT support/customer service jobs are easy to get.  You could probably work online/from home anywhere in the world doing that.  Fluent English has opened the doors for some folks here in Colombia (albeit customer service jobs suck balls).


RE: Living abroad and your Resume - Graft - 01-16-2021

(01-16-2021, 07:48 PM)OviOs Wrote:
(01-16-2021, 03:08 PM)Blake2 Wrote: So, after a certain amount of time abroad has passed it becomes difficult to get employment/education in your home country.


How are you supposed to explain a multi-year stint teaching abroad? How do you explain places that have a certain Third world stigma attached to them (Thailand, Ukraine, Columbia, etc)?

I have been advised to take an entry level position for a couple months (ex office assistant type stuff) to get in-country recommendation letters.

Any other tips, ideas, advice? At some point it seems non-viable and best to stay put unless you have a well thought out and specific plan.

Pretty sure I've mentioned this on the forum but entry-level IT support/customer service jobs are easy to get.  You could probably work online/from home anywhere in the world doing that.  Fluent English has opened the doors for some folks here in Colombia (albeit customer service jobs suck balls).

To be honest I think itts gotten much easier to explain a gap like this.  At least in the IT world, as well as finance, consulting, etc, there are tons of certifications/online degrees that you can get that explains your gap.

That's at least my plan when I travel full time.


RE: Living abroad and your Resume - Suits - 01-17-2021

(01-16-2021, 06:58 PM)Contrarian Expatriate Wrote: Last time I checked, teaching (whether it is English as a second language or any other subject) is a widely respected endeavor.   

It is absolutely not.

As far as employers (in the west) are concerned, this is just lost time on a résumé. No one is impressed by this type of experience and it's slightly better than simply going on vacation for two years.

This makes sense. Employers can't really distinguish between someone who had a demanding position that forced them to grow as an individual professional and one where the only criteria for staying employed were being white and not being completely drunk every day (since it's rather embarrassing to fall over repeatedly during a rousing rendition of Row, Row, Row Your Boat).

Exceptions might be cases where an individual ends up in a school management position or at least a teacher training role. If you can get an interview, you can make the case that the skills you learned are transferrable.

For straight up ESL teaching roles, however, few employers in the west valuable the skills you may have been developing. Even elementary schools and high schools won't take it seriously, because they don't consider the things you do in an ESL classroom to be comparable to what you do as a so-called "real teacher."

For someone hoping to continue doing ESL "back home" the pay is horrific unless you have an MTESOL from a respectable institution. So, for someone trapped in ESL, returning to their country of origin to complete a graduate degree might be a softer landing than trying to jump into a job and would increase their prospects considerably.


RE: Living abroad and your Resume - Contrarian Expatriate - 01-17-2021

(01-17-2021, 12:15 AM)Suits Wrote:
(01-16-2021, 06:58 PM)Contrarian Expatriate Wrote: Last time I checked, teaching (whether it is English as a second language or any other subject) is a widely respected endeavor.   

It is absolutely not.

As far as employers (in the west) are concerned, this is just lost time on a résumé. No one is impressed by this type of experience and it's slightly better than simply going on vacation for two years.

This makes sense. Employers can't really distinguish between someone who had a demanding position that forced them to grow as an individual professional and one where the only criteria for staying employed were being white and not being completely drunk every day (since it's rather embarrassing to fall over repeatedly during a rousing rendition of Row, Row, Row Your Boat).

Exceptions might be cases where an individual ends up in a school management position or at least a teacher training role. If you can get an interview, you can make the case that the skills you learned are transferrable.

For straight up ESL teaching roles, however, few employers in the west valuable the skills you may have been developing. Even elementary schools and high schools won't take it seriously, because they don't consider the things you do in an ESL classroom to be comparable to what you do as a so-called "real teacher."

For someone hoping to continue doing ESL "back home" the pay is horrific unless you have an MTESOL from a respectable institution. So, for someone trapped in ESL, returning to their country of origin to complete a graduate degree might be a softer landing than trying to jump into a job and would increase their prospects considerably.

Well as is usual, there is your wildly pessimistic take on a given matter, and there is reality.  Most of us choose to focus on the latter.


RE: Living abroad and your Resume - Suits - 01-17-2021

(01-17-2021, 01:23 AM)Contrarian Expatriate Wrote:
(01-17-2021, 12:15 AM)Suits Wrote:
(01-16-2021, 06:58 PM)Contrarian Expatriate Wrote: Last time I checked, teaching (whether it is English as a second language or any other subject) is a widely respected endeavor.   

It is absolutely not.

As far as employers (in the west) are concerned, this is just lost time on a résumé. No one is impressed by this type of experience and it's slightly better than simply going on vacation for two years.

This makes sense. Employers can't really distinguish between someone who had a demanding position that forced them to grow as an individual professional and one where the only criteria for staying employed were being white and not being completely drunk every day (since it's rather embarrassing to fall over repeatedly during a rousing rendition of Row, Row, Row Your Boat).

Exceptions might be cases where an individual ends up in a school management position or at least a teacher training role. If you can get an interview, you can make the case that the skills you learned are transferrable.

For straight up ESL teaching roles, however, few employers in the west valuable the skills you may have been developing. Even elementary schools and high schools won't take it seriously, because they don't consider the things you do in an ESL classroom to be comparable to what you do as a so-called "real teacher."

For someone hoping to continue doing ESL "back home" the pay is horrific unless you have an MTESOL from a respectable institution. So, for someone trapped in ESL, returning to their country of origin to complete a graduate degree might be a softer landing than trying to jump into a job and would increase their prospects considerably.

Well as is usual, there is your wildly pessimistic take on a given matter, and there is reality.  Most of us choose to focus on the latter.

Are you an ESL teacher?


RE: Living abroad and your Resume - Shifty - 01-17-2021

^ If you haven't noticed already CE will never admit he's wrong on anything, even when he has no first hand knowledge on the subject.
Suddenly what anyone with a high school diploma can do is a highly respected endeavor according to him.

As for the op, I'm too young to answer this question but I think it depends on the industry, in the software dev space for example it really doesn't matter as long as you can show you are qualified with your portfolio, projects, etc.


RE: Living abroad and your Resume - WorldConquest - 01-17-2021

Most jobs are found through networking. Work your tree of contacts and then you can pitch them on who you really are, and that will get you a much better chance than them just looking at a resume that was emailed in.


RE: Living abroad and your Resume - Dash - 01-17-2021

I'd imagine there will be some person that admires someone for stepping outside the box and doing things most people only dream about.

The truth usually lies in the middle.

Not the end of the world but it isn't optimal for focusing on career.


RE: Living abroad and your Resume - Bienvenuto - 01-18-2021

I've dressed up my time abroad living amongst drug rats, getting intimidated by biker employers, getting my head kicked in and throwing up the next day on building sites with all manner of technical jargon but as others have already stated it doesnt go very far.

As far as Im aware ESL teachers have a very low reputation amongst employers in their home countries.
Abroad the domestic native teachers have an esteemed place in their societies - often because it is a low paid, long term, relatively selfless role with-in the community. In places like Asia the students families all know each other and the local native teachers well. ESL teachers are seen as varying kinds of interlopers, some viewed positively, some negatively.

The key is networking on return with the proviso that there are no second chances. No one will hold open a door for someone who let people down previously.


RE: Living abroad and your Resume - Winston Wolfe - 01-18-2021

I can't comment on teaching English, so I will leave that to the others.

However what I can say is that if you do something like programming / web development / online marketing etc. then it shouldn't be difficult to find a job back home, provided that you can demonstrate past results (which are verifiable).

These are skills that are in demand and will stay in demand as long as you keep on top of modern developments in your field. Avoid getting stuck into 1 particular skill and becoming a tech dinosaur of sorts, who is good at doing old tricks with technology that is being phased out and won't be relevant anymore in X years.

It's also about how you phrase it. Avoid saying something like "yeah I've just been programming as a freelancer while traveling the world". Instead, demonstrate that you have helped develop X and Y website or product and contributed to X revenue generated for Y company (even if that "company" was basically just you working for yourself and building some niche websites).

Now I'm not saying this is easy and I'm not saying "just learn to code, bro". But there are many skills you can pick up and get good at which will be in demand back home as well.

And also, as mentioned before, always be networking, even abroad. You never know who you might meet and what connections these people have in turn. Relentlessly add everyone on LinkedIn and post some updates every once in a while, so you stay on their radar as "that guy who shares information in a particular field". They could meet someone years down the road who enquires about your particular field of expertise and they might refer you.

Lastly, I do think age may be a factor here. If you have a gap of a few years in your resume and you're in your late 20s or early 30s, it may be easier to get away with than when you're in your 40s or 50s. But then still, ultimately it's all about the value you can provide. Employers won't give much of a shit about your past if you are the prize here, and you are the one who can say "take it or leave it".


RE: Living abroad and your Resume - Contrarian Expatriate - 01-18-2021

(01-17-2021, 02:34 AM)Suits Wrote:
(01-17-2021, 01:23 AM)Contrarian Expatriate Wrote:
(01-17-2021, 12:15 AM)Suits Wrote:
(01-16-2021, 06:58 PM)Contrarian Expatriate Wrote: Last time I checked, teaching (whether it is English as a second language or any other subject) is a widely respected endeavor.   

It is absolutely not.

As far as employers (in the west) are concerned, this is just lost time on a résumé. No one is impressed by this type of experience and it's slightly better than simply going on vacation for two years.

This makes sense. Employers can't really distinguish between someone who had a demanding position that forced them to grow as an individual professional and one where the only criteria for staying employed were being white and not being completely drunk every day (since it's rather embarrassing to fall over repeatedly during a rousing rendition of Row, Row, Row Your Boat).

Exceptions might be cases where an individual ends up in a school management position or at least a teacher training role. If you can get an interview, you can make the case that the skills you learned are transferrable.

For straight up ESL teaching roles, however, few employers in the west valuable the skills you may have been developing. Even elementary schools and high schools won't take it seriously, because they don't consider the things you do in an ESL classroom to be comparable to what you do as a so-called "real teacher."

For someone hoping to continue doing ESL "back home" the pay is horrific unless you have an MTESOL from a respectable institution. So, for someone trapped in ESL, returning to their country of origin to complete a graduate degree might be a softer landing than trying to jump into a job and would increase their prospects considerably.

Well as is usual, there is your wildly pessimistic take on a given matter, and there is reality.  Most of us choose to focus on the latter.

Are you an ESL teacher?
The more I observe your posts, the less I think you are worth reading going forward.  But to your question, I am is someone who has considerable experience evaluating resumes and professional credentials.  If you think teaching as a profession is not respected among many employers, then you need to be evaluated for severe autism without delay.

https://www.internationalteflacademy.com/blog/7-ways-teaching-english-abroad-enhances-your-career-prospects


I don't know what kind of professional failures and frustrations give rise to considering teaching abroad as "wasted time," but not everyone is constrained by the things that have held you back in life. 

Young people who go abroad to teach, hone transferable skills, and build professional confidence only stand to benefit from those experiences.  I am sorry your life is such that you are not able to see that.


RE: Living abroad and your Resume - Suits - 01-18-2021

(01-18-2021, 01:02 PM)Contrarian Expatriate Wrote:
(01-17-2021, 02:34 AM)Suits Wrote:
(01-17-2021, 01:23 AM)Contrarian Expatriate Wrote:
(01-17-2021, 12:15 AM)Suits Wrote:
(01-16-2021, 06:58 PM)Contrarian Expatriate Wrote: Last time I checked, teaching (whether it is English as a second language or any other subject) is a widely respected endeavor.   

It is absolutely not.

As far as employers (in the west) are concerned, this is just lost time on a résumé. No one is impressed by this type of experience and it's slightly better than simply going on vacation for two years.

This makes sense. Employers can't really distinguish between someone who had a demanding position that forced them to grow as an individual professional and one where the only criteria for staying employed were being white and not being completely drunk every day (since it's rather embarrassing to fall over repeatedly during a rousing rendition of Row, Row, Row Your Boat).

Exceptions might be cases where an individual ends up in a school management position or at least a teacher training role. If you can get an interview, you can make the case that the skills you learned are transferrable.

For straight up ESL teaching roles, however, few employers in the west valuable the skills you may have been developing. Even elementary schools and high schools won't take it seriously, because they don't consider the things you do in an ESL classroom to be comparable to what you do as a so-called "real teacher."

For someone hoping to continue doing ESL "back home" the pay is horrific unless you have an MTESOL from a respectable institution. So, for someone trapped in ESL, returning to their country of origin to complete a graduate degree might be a softer landing than trying to jump into a job and would increase their prospects considerably.

Well as is usual, there is your wildly pessimistic take on a given matter, and there is reality.  Most of us choose to focus on the latter.

Are you an ESL teacher?

The more I observe your posts, the less I think you are worth reading going forward.  But to your question, I am is someone who has considerable experience evaluating resumes and professional credentials.  If you think teaching as a profession is not respected among many employers, then you need to be evaluated for severe autism without delay.

https://www.internationalteflacademy.com/blog/7-ways-teaching-english-abroad-enhances-your-career-prospects

Are you kidding me?

Your evidence of the respectability of teaching ESL is a blog post from a company that makes money convincing people that spending $2000 on a TESL certification is a good investment. Yeah, sounds like an unbiased source.

I'd go into more detail, but I'm late for my severe autism evaluation with a learning disabilities specialist. I'll let you know what I find out.


RE: Living abroad and your Resume - Contrarian Expatriate - 01-18-2021

(01-18-2021, 03:10 PM)Suits Wrote:
(01-18-2021, 01:02 PM)Contrarian Expatriate Wrote:
(01-17-2021, 02:34 AM)Suits Wrote:
(01-17-2021, 01:23 AM)Contrarian Expatriate Wrote:
(01-17-2021, 12:15 AM)Suits Wrote: It is absolutely not.

As far as employers (in the west) are concerned, this is just lost time on a résumé. No one is impressed by this type of experience and it's slightly better than simply going on vacation for two years.

This makes sense. Employers can't really distinguish between someone who had a demanding position that forced them to grow as an individual professional and one where the only criteria for staying employed were being white and not being completely drunk every day (since it's rather embarrassing to fall over repeatedly during a rousing rendition of Row, Row, Row Your Boat).

Exceptions might be cases where an individual ends up in a school management position or at least a teacher training role. If you can get an interview, you can make the case that the skills you learned are transferrable.

For straight up ESL teaching roles, however, few employers in the west valuable the skills you may have been developing. Even elementary schools and high schools won't take it seriously, because they don't consider the things you do in an ESL classroom to be comparable to what you do as a so-called "real teacher."

For someone hoping to continue doing ESL "back home" the pay is horrific unless you have an MTESOL from a respectable institution. So, for someone trapped in ESL, returning to their country of origin to complete a graduate degree might be a softer landing than trying to jump into a job and would increase their prospects considerably.

Well as is usual, there is your wildly pessimistic take on a given matter, and there is reality.  Most of us choose to focus on the latter.

Are you an ESL teacher?

The more I observe your posts, the less I think you are worth reading going forward.  But to your question, I am is someone who has considerable experience evaluating resumes and professional credentials.  If you think teaching as a profession is not respected among many employers, then you need to be evaluated for severe autism without delay.

https://www.internationalteflacademy.com/blog/7-ways-teaching-english-abroad-enhances-your-career-prospects

Are you kidding me?

Your evidence of the respectability of teaching ESL is a blog post from a company that makes money convincing people that spending $2000 on a TESL certification is a good investment. Yeah, sounds like an unbiased source.

I'd go into more detail, but I'm late for my severe autism evaluation with a learning disabilities specialist. I'll let you know what I find out.
The evidence is my own professional experience, I just linked that site as an "easy to understand" set of examples for you since you since find it so difficult to get your head around it.    

There are plenty of employers that do considerable in-house training and outside, specialized training as their bread and butter.  People with these backgrounds are wonderful candidates, not to mention the other transferable skill sets that make no sense to you.  

Perhaps it is just that you've never been professionally accomplished and that is why none of this is relatable to you.  Whatever the case, I am going to place you on "ignore" because I just don't find anything you write to be particularly intelligent, constructive, or worth our valuable time.

I do hope other members who feel similarly about your negative mindset to do the same and simply place you on their ignore lists.


RE: Living abroad and your Resume - Suits - 01-18-2021

[Image: nervous-laugh-gif-7.gif]


RE: Living abroad and your Resume - Shifty - 01-18-2021

(01-18-2021, 03:10 PM)Suits Wrote: Your evidence of the respectability of teaching ESL is a blog post from a company that makes money convincing people that spending $2000 on a TESL certification is a good investment. Yeah, sounds like an unbiased source.

I'd go into more detail, but I'm late for my severe autism evaluation with a learning disabilities specialist. I'll let you know what I find out.

I'm starting to confirm my suspicions that CE just does a quick google search on a subject and pretends to be an expert.


RE: Living abroad and your Resume - Blake2 - 01-24-2021

Found out just how horrible the job market is right now due to COVID. Its a good time to upgrade qualifications w/ online courses. Also no one will blame you for doing online instead of in-person courses.

Also, a low cost location + online freelance work makes more financial sense right now.