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Career vs Travel - Blake2 - 02-25-2020

I know this has come up, but I'd like to get your opinions on Career vs Travel

I meet some guys who did no travelling except for 2 weeks a year and work on their career all the time.

I meet other guys who live as "digital nomads" all the time. But, even those with remote jobs are clearly sacrificing career opportunities for travel.


1) What do you guys think is a good balance? For example, spending 3 or 4 years focusing on career and then traveling? How about 10 years?

Are guys in their 40s still enjoying travelling and the swoop lifestyle after having established a solid financial base?


RE: Career vs Travel - el_hefe - 02-25-2020

(02-25-2020, 11:34 AM)Blake2 Wrote: I know this has come up, but I'd like to get your opinions on Career vs Travel

I meet some guys who did no travelling except for 2 weeks a year and work on their career all the time.

I meet other guys who live as "digital nomads" all the time. But, even those with remote jobs are clearly sacrificing career opportunities for travel.


1) What do you guys think is a good balance? For example, spending 3 or 4 years focusing on career and then traveling? How about 10 years?

Are guys in their 40s still enjoying travelling and the swoop lifestyle after having established a solid financial base?

Why not find a career where you can do both at the same time? That's why I chose aviation...


RE: Career vs Travel - Blake2 - 02-25-2020

(02-25-2020, 02:44 PM)el_hefe Wrote:
(02-25-2020, 11:34 AM)Blake2 Wrote: I know this has come up, but I'd like to get your opinions on Career vs Travel

I meet some guys who did no travelling except for 2 weeks a year and work on their career all the time.

I meet other guys who live as "digital nomads" all the time. But, even those with remote jobs are clearly sacrificing career opportunities for travel.


1) What do you guys think is a good balance? For example, spending 3 or 4 years focusing on career and then traveling? How about 10 years?

Are guys in their 40s still enjoying travelling and the swoop lifestyle after having established a solid financial base?

Why not find a career where you can do both at the same time?  That's why I chose aviation...

Hard to do.

I was thinking of changing careers and going into programming, but after research it looks pretty hard to land a remote coding job. Most people recommend working in an office for 5 years or so to get skills and then look for remote jobs.


RE: Career vs Travel - Aero - 02-25-2020

I quit a good stable job over a year ago so I could travel, I'm still out of work currently and have less savings, but I'm glad I did it, because regardless of how much wealth I could have accumulated had I stayed there indefinitely or how high on the ladder I climbed, it wasn't an environment I was happy existing in or a life I was happy living.

I think it totally depends on your career path. Are you on the 40-50-60 hour a week clown world office worker path? Honestly, no amount of money could keep me in a position like that long term, that's a death sentence in my opinion. But if you're really in love with your line of work, or your career is something rewarding, masculine and well paying, it probably makes sense for you to not abandon ship.

I'm now, like everyone else, trying to figure something out that doesn't lock me into a miserable 9-5 wageslave existence. I don't give a shit if I end up earning 30k a year, there's plenty of great places to live that are affordable, but I'm done trading large chunks of my time for shekels.


RE: Career vs Travel - Blake2 - 02-25-2020

Oh, for sure. I would be more than happy making 24K a year if it was a remote job allowing travel.
I wonder what those options are.

I agree that the endless office job makes no sense...but even the masculine and rewarding careers take time and effort to get right.
And that requires sacrificing a good chunk of time.


RE: Career vs Travel - zatara - 02-25-2020

(02-25-2020, 02:53 PM)Blake2 Wrote: Hard to do.

The 2 weeks-leave-a-year leave wageslave life in the US, or poverty stricken digital nomad full time traveler aren't the only options. Theres a healthy middle-ground choice where you can both have a good career and travel a reasonable amount: move to Europe.

You'll get a minimum of 6 weeks a year paid leave anywhere in Western Europe, up to 8 weeks in some places. And salaries are high enough that you have more than enough disposable income to spend that time traveling. Most people I know do two 2.5 week long haul holidays a year, and 3-4 long weekend short-haul trips, per year. With days left over to use for weddings, family events etc.

There are huge numbers of well paid white collar jobs in London/Dublin/Amsterdam which mean you don't even need to learn another language.


RE: Career vs Travel - el_hefe - 02-26-2020

(02-25-2020, 02:53 PM)Blake2 Wrote:
(02-25-2020, 02:44 PM)el_hefe Wrote:
(02-25-2020, 11:34 AM)Blake2 Wrote: I know this has come up, but I'd like to get your opinions on Career vs Travel

I meet some guys who did no travelling except for 2 weeks a year and work on their career all the time.

I meet other guys who live as "digital nomads" all the time. But, even those with remote jobs are clearly sacrificing career opportunities for travel.


1) What do you guys think is a good balance? For example, spending 3 or 4 years focusing on career and then traveling? How about 10 years?

Are guys in their 40s still enjoying travelling and the swoop lifestyle after having established a solid financial base?

Why not find a career where you can do both at the same time?  That's why I chose aviation...

Hard to do.

I was thinking of changing careers and going into programming, but after research it looks pretty hard to land a remote coding job. Most people recommend working in an office for 5 years or so to get skills and then look for remote jobs.

I changed to programming for a semester in college and absolutely hated it.  I was miserable sitting behind a computer.  I need to be out and about with a change of scenery.

What do you enjoy doing for a living?  Also where are you from?


RE: Career vs Travel - Blake2 - 02-26-2020

(02-26-2020, 07:34 PM)el_hefe Wrote:
(02-25-2020, 02:53 PM)Blake2 Wrote:
(02-25-2020, 02:44 PM)el_hefe Wrote:
(02-25-2020, 11:34 AM)Blake2 Wrote: I know this has come up, but I'd like to get your opinions on Career vs Travel

I meet some guys who did no travelling except for 2 weeks a year and work on their career all the time.

I meet other guys who live as "digital nomads" all the time. But, even those with remote jobs are clearly sacrificing career opportunities for travel.


1) What do you guys think is a good balance? For example, spending 3 or 4 years focusing on career and then traveling? How about 10 years?

Are guys in their 40s still enjoying travelling and the swoop lifestyle after having established a solid financial base?

Why not find a career where you can do both at the same time?  That's why I chose aviation...

Hard to do.

I was thinking of changing careers and going into programming, but after research it looks pretty hard to land a remote coding job. Most people recommend working in an office for 5 years or so to get skills and then look for remote jobs.

I changed to programming for a semester in college and absolutely hated it.  I was miserable sitting behind a computer.  I need to be out and about with a change of scenery.

What do you enjoy doing for a living?  Also where are you from?

Well, I have some other career options that are pretty interesting, but I wouldn't be able to travel.
It really seems like programming is the only remote work opportunity with any real potential.

English teaching is fine for some, but I wouldn't want to do that long term.

Most other careers don't seem to offer to much travel except for something like starting a business abroad.


RE: Career vs Travel - mike - 02-26-2020

(02-26-2020, 07:34 PM)el_hefe Wrote:
(02-25-2020, 02:53 PM)Blake2 Wrote:
(02-25-2020, 02:44 PM)el_hefe Wrote:
(02-25-2020, 11:34 AM)Blake2 Wrote: I know this has come up, but I'd like to get your opinions on Career vs Travel

I meet some guys who did no travelling except for 2 weeks a year and work on their career all the time.

I meet other guys who live as "digital nomads" all the time. But, even those with remote jobs are clearly sacrificing career opportunities for travel.


1) What do you guys think is a good balance? For example, spending 3 or 4 years focusing on career and then traveling? How about 10 years?

Are guys in their 40s still enjoying travelling and the swoop lifestyle after having established a solid financial base?

Why not find a career where you can do both at the same time?  That's why I chose aviation...

Hard to do.

I was thinking of changing careers and going into programming, but after research it looks pretty hard to land a remote coding job. Most people recommend working in an office for 5 years or so to get skills and then look for remote jobs.

I changed to programming for a semester in college and absolutely hated it.  I was miserable sitting behind a computer.  I need to be out and about with a change of scenery.

What do you enjoy doing for a living?  Also where are you from?

Unfortunately, 99% of jobs that will allow you to travel will also require you to sit behind a computer all the time. It's a compromise if you want to travel and work. How do you expect to work remotely if it's not from a computer?


RE: Career vs Travel - Blake2 - 02-27-2020

(02-26-2020, 10:48 PM)mike Wrote:
(02-26-2020, 07:34 PM)el_hefe Wrote:
(02-25-2020, 02:53 PM)Blake2 Wrote:
(02-25-2020, 02:44 PM)el_hefe Wrote:
(02-25-2020, 11:34 AM)Blake2 Wrote: I know this has come up, but I'd like to get your opinions on Career vs Travel

I meet some guys who did no travelling except for 2 weeks a year and work on their career all the time.

I meet other guys who live as "digital nomads" all the time. But, even those with remote jobs are clearly sacrificing career opportunities for travel.


1) What do you guys think is a good balance? For example, spending 3 or 4 years focusing on career and then traveling? How about 10 years?

Are guys in their 40s still enjoying travelling and the swoop lifestyle after having established a solid financial base?

Why not find a career where you can do both at the same time?  That's why I chose aviation...

Hard to do.

I was thinking of changing careers and going into programming, but after research it looks pretty hard to land a remote coding job. Most people recommend working in an office for 5 years or so to get skills and then look for remote jobs.

I changed to programming for a semester in college and absolutely hated it.  I was miserable sitting behind a computer.  I need to be out and about with a change of scenery.

What do you enjoy doing for a living?  Also where are you from?

Unfortunately, 99% of jobs that will allow you to travel will also require you to sit behind a computer all the time. It's a compromise if you want to travel and work. How do you expect to work remotely if it's not from a computer?

Agreed.

Do you have a job in tech? How hard was it to get a remote job?

Did you have to work in an office for many years before you went remote?


RE: Career vs Travel - Merengues - 02-27-2020

Zatara, I agree with you for the most part but where did you find the 8 weeks vacation time in Western Europe? The most I found was 32 days and only because the union had strong position in the company.


RE: Career vs Travel - el_hefe - 02-27-2020

(02-26-2020, 10:48 PM)mike Wrote:
(02-26-2020, 07:34 PM)el_hefe Wrote:
(02-25-2020, 02:53 PM)Blake2 Wrote:
(02-25-2020, 02:44 PM)el_hefe Wrote:
(02-25-2020, 11:34 AM)Blake2 Wrote: I know this has come up, but I'd like to get your opinions on Career vs Travel

I meet some guys who did no travelling except for 2 weeks a year and work on their career all the time.

I meet other guys who live as "digital nomads" all the time. But, even those with remote jobs are clearly sacrificing career opportunities for travel.


1) What do you guys think is a good balance? For example, spending 3 or 4 years focusing on career and then traveling? How about 10 years?

Are guys in their 40s still enjoying travelling and the swoop lifestyle after having established a solid financial base?

Why not find a career where you can do both at the same time?  That's why I chose aviation...

Hard to do.

I was thinking of changing careers and going into programming, but after research it looks pretty hard to land a remote coding job. Most people recommend working in an office for 5 years or so to get skills and then look for remote jobs.

I changed to programming for a semester in college and absolutely hated it.  I was miserable sitting behind a computer.  I need to be out and about with a change of scenery.

What do you enjoy doing for a living?  Also where are you from?

Unfortunately, 99% of jobs that will allow you to travel will also require you to sit behind a computer all the time. It's a compromise if you want to travel and work. How do you expect to work remotely if it's not from a computer?

Well yeah, I'm not that dense lol.  I was referring to programming and coding, which I tried and came to the conclusion that it would not be a good fit for me.

(02-26-2020, 08:05 PM)Blake2 Wrote:
(02-26-2020, 07:34 PM)el_hefe Wrote:
(02-25-2020, 02:53 PM)Blake2 Wrote:
(02-25-2020, 02:44 PM)el_hefe Wrote:
(02-25-2020, 11:34 AM)Blake2 Wrote: I know this has come up, but I'd like to get your opinions on Career vs Travel

I meet some guys who did no travelling except for 2 weeks a year and work on their career all the time.

I meet other guys who live as "digital nomads" all the time. But, even those with remote jobs are clearly sacrificing career opportunities for travel.


1) What do you guys think is a good balance? For example, spending 3 or 4 years focusing on career and then traveling? How about 10 years?

Are guys in their 40s still enjoying travelling and the swoop lifestyle after having established a solid financial base?

Why not find a career where you can do both at the same time?  That's why I chose aviation...

Hard to do.

I was thinking of changing careers and going into programming, but after research it looks pretty hard to land a remote coding job. Most people recommend working in an office for 5 years or so to get skills and then look for remote jobs.

I changed to programming for a semester in college and absolutely hated it.  I was miserable sitting behind a computer.  I need to be out and about with a change of scenery.

What do you enjoy doing for a living?  Also where are you from?

Well, I have some other career options that are pretty interesting, but I wouldn't be able to travel.
It really seems like programming is the only remote work opportunity with any real potential.

English teaching is fine for some, but I wouldn't want to do that long term.

Most other careers don't seem to offer to much travel except for something like starting a business abroad.

I'm an airline captain and I travel 100% of the time for work.  It's not exactly a remote work opportunity as you don't always get to choose where you fly to, but it is very doable to get large chunks of days off every month to go use your travel benefits all over the world.  

The pay and retirement is among the best in the US, but I'm guessing my job wouldn't be a good fit for 95% of the posters on here.  It can be a rough road to get to where I am.


RE: Career vs Travel - SpecialEd - 02-27-2020

Your 1st priority should be learning an easily monetizable skillset. That could be programming, sales, carpentry..it doesnt matter.

A lot of wage slaves work years without actually developing a clear skillset. Lot of clock punchers in the workforce that have low value added jobs. They'll be on the chopping block sooner than later.

Spending your 20s teaching ESL or digital nomading with some adsense or article writing for pennies is probably a bad idea no matter how much poon you get.

To Zataras point though, Western Europeans get far lower net salaries than the U.S and have more expensive property markets. So I don't what he's so chipper about. Also they have a pretty closed off labor market for non EU citizens so it's a moot point for most anyway.


RE: Career vs Travel - Blake2 - 02-27-2020

(02-27-2020, 04:45 PM)SpecialEd Wrote: ...programming...

Hmm...I see. This keeps coming up over and over again.


RE: Career vs Travel - Contrarian Expatriate - 02-27-2020

Get your wealth in order FIRST.  Hit the grind, work your butt off and then think about generating a modest income online while you enjoy passive income from your holdings.

It is a process and doing it simultaneously while you're young is not the smartest strategy unless you are already wealthy.

A life of travel is a luxury that must be EARNED by most.  Don't do it too soon and sabotage your future.


RE: Career vs Travel - zatara - 02-27-2020

(02-27-2020, 04:45 PM)SpecialEd Wrote: To Zataras point though, Western Europeans get far lower net salaries than the U.S and have more expensive property markets. So I don't what he's so chipper about. Also they have a pretty closed off labor market for non EU citizens so it's a moot point for most anyway.

White collar salaries in the cities I mentioned are comparable to anywhere in the US outside of San Fran, NYC or LA. Rent is expensive (by other American city standards anyway - not compared to SF/NYC), but healthcare isn't, and theres no need to own a car - so disposable income is similar. Theres a reason Western European 20somethings can be found all over the world on long haul, weeks long, holidays in huge numbers and Americans are comparatively rare.

I wouldn't say I'm "chipper" about it, just realistic. I've personally worked in both the US and Europe. In the US I earned more, but I also only got 10 days a year of holidays, and regularly worked overtime. Lots of jobs get even less leave too, theres no statutory minimum. In Europe I get 7 weeks a year of paid holiday leave, 2 weeks a year of paid sick leave (which I use every year), and don't work more than 40 hours a week. And thats not remotely unusual - its a standard package, all of my friends and family are on similar.

Its a career move I recommend wholeheartedly to any Americans currently struggling between the dilemma of wasting their 20s/30s freedom-wise earning 80k a year as a wage slave in the US taking no holidays, or wasting their 20s/30s career-wise/financially earning 20k a year as a poverty stricken digital nomad/TEFL type. Split the difference, move to London/Amsterdam/Dublin instead and earn 60k a year, but with 6 weeks+ a year of leave. Once you're earning 50k+ p.a. taking a 25% pay cut is marginal to your lifestyle, but the difference in quality of life gained from the extra leave is phenomenal. You still earn enough to have a nice middle class lifestyle, but also have enough leave time to travel extensively (and probably more importantly, spend time with your family when you're older).

Its also not particularly hard for Americans to work in Europe if they want to. Any American with an Irish grandparent automatically qualifies for Irish citizenship. Any American with any Italian ancestry qualifies for Italian citizenship. Thats tens of millions of Americans covered right there. For Americans with no ancestral connection the way to do it is to get a job in a large American multinational firm who has an EMEA office in Europe, and then do an internal transfer a year or two later to the European office.

I've worked with Americans who've done both - ancestral and work visas. Its not particularly hard if you're a white collar worker, and you decide to it.


RE: Career vs Travel - Crazy Horse - 02-28-2020

There hasn't been a single day in the past 8-months that I haven't wrestled with these two competing ideals.

I've previously written in this forum stating my intention to quit my job to begin traveling full-time beginning in July 2020. There are days when I feel like there's no way I can wait that long to pull the plug and hit the road, and other days where I feel like a fool for even considering walking away from the demanding, yet stable high paying / high status job I currently hold. My current job is a 50/50 blue collar/white collar mix. I safely and skillfully operate heavy industrial equipment and build complex excel spreadsheets. My work inspires me, is masculine in nature, and is devoid of the bullshit office politics that appear to be rampant in most organizations.

Quitting means folding my hand and walking away from the table. Leaving behind a $200k/year job, and a submissive and supportive girlfriend who loves me. I'm troubled by the idea that i'd be walking away from the best situation i'll ever get, while the other part of me is screaming, "fuck it, let's see what happens". Bringing my girlfriend along for the next "phase" is not an option. 

Against that background, I feel confident that I can get on with a company in the industrial sector anywhere in the world and get paid. The Fourth Industrial Revolution is upon us and someone who can simultaneously write/speak eloquently, proficiently use computers, and work with their hands will get paid. I know i'm that guy, but do I really want that? Providing value to a corporation or building company of your own takes blood, sweat and tears. The days pass by with a blink of the eye and money becomes an abstract concept with lessening importance after you have enough to eat and keep a roof over your head. I'm not certain that I want to grind my days away earning money for unclear reasons. 

All of this is to say that I don't have the answer and I'm struggling to find it. Life is short and we're either going to die traumatically or peacefully; hungry, or well fed; alone, or in the company of people who appreciate our existence. I can't help but feel like none of it matters. At 29 years old with $250k cash savings in the bank, my gut is telling me to hit the road.


RE: Career vs Travel - OviOs - 02-28-2020

(02-27-2020, 08:09 PM)Contrarian Expatriate Wrote: Get your wealth in order FIRST.  Hit the grind, work your butt off and then think about generating a modest income online while you enjoy passive income from your holdings.

It is a process and doing it simultaneously while you're young is not the smartest strategy unless you are already wealthy.

A life of travel is a luxury that must be EARNED by most.  Don't do it too soon and sabotage your future.
Whole heartedly agree with C.E.  Build a sustainable investment portfolio that you can essentially live off of and THEN make your dash.  You probably only need somewhere between 5 to 10 years of aggressive hustling to cultivate a stockpile of assets valued at 7+ digits.  From what I have seen, Wall Street Playboys have the best methodology for younger guys to attain (and subsequently) enjoy wealth.


RE: Career vs Travel - Blake2 - 02-28-2020

(02-28-2020, 06:42 AM)OviOs Wrote:
(02-27-2020, 08:09 PM)Contrarian Expatriate Wrote: Get your wealth in order FIRST.  Hit the grind, work your butt off and then think about generating a modest income online while you enjoy passive income from your holdings.

It is a process and doing it simultaneously while you're young is not the smartest strategy unless you are already wealthy.

A life of travel is a luxury that must be EARNED by most.  Don't do it too soon and sabotage your future.
Whole heartedly agree with C.E.  Build a sustainable investment portfolio that you can essentially live off of and THEN make your dash.  You probably only need somewhere between 5 to 10 years of aggressive hustling to cultivate a stockpile of assets valued at 7+ digits.  From what I have seen, Wall Street Playboys have the best methodology for younger guys to attain (and subsequently) enjoy wealth.


I see, its a good idea to set up a career and money as a base to work off of.
Then layer travel on top of that.


RE: Career vs Travel - AirWaves - 02-28-2020

(02-27-2020, 08:24 PM)zatara Wrote: Its also not particularly hard for Americans to work in Europe if they want to. Any American with an Irish grandparent automatically qualifies for Irish citizenship. Any American with any Italian ancestry qualifies for Italian citizenship. Thats tens of millions of Americans covered right there. For Americans with no ancestral connection the way to do it is to get a job in a large American multinational firm who has an EMEA office in Europe, and then do an internal transfer a year or two later to the European office.

I've worked with Americans who've done both - ancestral and work visas. Its not particularly hard if you're a white collar worker, and you decide to it.

I don't know how hard the Irish one is, but my Italian-American buddy was doing the Italian one, and as you might guess, the paperwork can take years there.

I also knew and met an American from RvF who got Polish citizenship by ancestry. That one seemed pretty quick, probably less than a year.

As for Americans without ancestral connections, speaking from my own experience, getting transferred to Europe at a multinational company can be incredibly competitive. An American buddy of mine did get transferred to Europe though - the key possibly being that he worked for a company that transferred folks more often than mine, which tended to use local labor.

As an alternative, I did game regularly with an American in Poland who's first job out of a Dutch university was with an American multinational company in Poland. So a Western European degree might be an option, especially for the younger folks.