In part one of this post I covered the importance and relevance of frame control, interactions used in day game, and the 3 most common rejections that you’ll have to negotiate while keeping your dignity and saving your ego.
Now for part two.
In the bar and club scene you are at the worst possible point in terms of the preconceived notions from women. They view you as an adversary, a person that’s there for their amusement (and free drinks), and as a little more than entertainment or a nuisance.
To give you an example, I remember I was out once and I went to the bar to order a drink and there was a very good looking girl nearby. I just said “hey” as I brushed past her to order and she said “hi” too.
Within 30 seconds this girl pokes me on the shoulder and asks me to buy her a drink. I looked down and saw she was actually DOUBLE FISTING (drinks in both hands) and that let me know the score with her.
There’s a reason she felt comfortable asking me for a drink under those circumstances; she was used to suckers doing whatever she asked them too. Little “thirsty” guys (a term that refers to men that are so hard up for pussy that they’ll sell their mother for a chance to talk to women) trying to score points were paying for her night out and she was playing them for fools. I still remember being insulted that she mistook me for someone like that.
Now, don’t get me wrong, I’ll buy a girl’s drink on occasion when it’s appropriate (not often in the U.S.) but just trust me, this girl was obnoxious.
“Yeah, of course I’d love to. In fact, buy your friends something and get me one too, I’ll be right back”.
She broke into a big self satisfied smile that she didn’t even try to hide and without even saying “thanks” leaned over the bar balancing her cocktails and started calling for the bartender.
I walked over to the end of the crowded bar and ordered from the bartender there and left a big tip while bullshitting with him for a moment.
About that time, the bartender who served the girl was calling for my attention and held up his hands and pointed to her like “hey are you paying for these?”.
I looked back confused and shook my head “I don’t know her”. Then I looked at the bartender I was talking to “What the hell was that about?”.
I grabbed my drink and headed back to where my friends were and I heard “You fucking asshole!”
Then it was my turn to have a self satisfied smile.
The point is, that’s the mentality of a lot of girls. They have little contests to see who can get the most free drinks, will leave with nothing but their phones and ID’s in their purses and no money and all the while they are laughing at you and smiling to themselves with self satisfaction when you just hand them money for the pleasure of a few words with them.
The trouble with knowing this is that it can in turn cause you to be overly an asshole when you happen to start talking to a girl that thinks being witty, interesting, clever, and charming is the same thing as being “snarky”,”bitchy”, boastful, or downright insulting.
Most women simply don’t have very good social skills when it comes to being truly interesting or engaging in acts of real merit (to be fair most men aren’t either) because they haven’t NEEDED to develop/do them (again this is mostly a Western world phenomenon) and if you pointed this out many of them wouldn’t care anyway.
The trouble with this adversarial mentality by both parties is that when you actually do have a girl that’s semi open to being approached or is initially attracted to you, the interaction quickly devolves into some smartass comments back and forth.
Guys in “game” are preparing to deal with “shit tests” by memorizing or practicing all these “put her in her place” remarks and what usually happens is the interaction ends with him telling his buddies she has “bitch shields” and her telling her friends that he was a “douchebag”.
The guy didn’t learn anything from the interaction, he just thinks he was controlling the frame and “at least she knows I don’t put up with that shit”.
I’m going to submit to everyone that this is the WRONG way to control the frame in a nightlife setting.
Observe this formula:
Make it Sexy + Be Fun – Adversarial Mindset
I’ll break this down further; The adversarial mindset is a big thing that negatively affects how you control the frame during an interaction. She will pick up on it and return the favor. On the other hand, it’s very tough to fight with someone that has no interest in engaging you that way.
A common example to illustrate this is when a girl comes up and just hands you her phone and says “take our picture”. Some guys just comply with this (same as buying her drink) right away and she just forgot that the real reason she chose you instead of one of your friends is because that was HER opener. Now granted, sometimes that’s not the case and you were the only guy around or whatever but remember, girls in bars and clubs don’t just HAPPEN to stand right next to you, walk right in front of you a couple times, or hand you specifically their phone to take their photo.
Now, I experimented with a lot of things. I used to say “Oh yeah, what do I get out of this?” or “Oh when you ask me so nicely how can I resist??”
The first was cocky funny but it came off as me being a dick (and it was, but the opportunity to engage socially is gone).
The 2nd was too adversarial even though it’s a justifiable response to a rude command (again, eye on the prize, do you want to talk to this girl or not?)
I remember one very pretty girl came up to this guy and I and she asked politely “Would you take our picture?” while holding her phone out to me and I just said “he will” and I pointed to him. She looked at me confused and kept it in front of me.
“No. I don’t do that find some other asshole” because in my caveman brain I couldn’t come up with a solution. I thought, well if I do I’m a chump and if I say no then at least it ups my value.
I just didn’t like the sense of entitlement, as if I have nothing better to do than take a picture for these girls that are striking the same poses and doing the same stupid things that EVERY girl does so they can then post these photos on facebook and talk about how “You Only Live Once”! (another thing that bothers me, as if going to clubs is “living life to the fullest”, but I digress)
This was completely stupid, this was HER WAY OF OPENING ME and even though it might be obvious to some, I had lost a great opportunity because I was too heavily stuck in the adversarial frame of mind.
Then I remembered my tried and true frame control method of AGREE AND AMPLIFY and I started getting great results.
I had to get back into Scientist mode and do research.
I started playfully taking the phone and would move them in sexy poses “ok you stand here, ok put your hand on the back of your head and look like this” (I’d strike a stupid feminine sexy pose that looked funny because I’m doing it).
Some girls responded very well to this, other’s acted offended that I touched them. I didn’t care, I was doing research. If they liked it the conversation continued, if they didn’t I’d hand their phone back and say “Ok don’t bother me with this shit then”.
I started making more adjustments, until I came up with the formula:
Make it Sexy + Be Fun – Adversarial Mentality
Now I’ll playfully snatch the phone from her hand while maintaining eye contact and smiling “Gimmie this thing!” (observing the formula while agreeing and amplifying) and then I’ll control the frame. I’ll take a photo or two “You know, if you kind of put your leg up like this on the chair that would be way better”. Etc etc.
(I think it should be noted that when I say “make it sexy” I don’t mean act in a way that is “creepy” or overly aggressive. I mean maintain eye contact, speak in a comfortable tone, be confident in your body language, refuse to fall into her snarkyness by just asking “huh?” when she says something dumb and make her feel dumb for acting that way by pretending not to catch her meaning and then leading the conversation elsewhere)
You hand the phone to her and revert back to being laid back, maintain eye contact, and continue the frame control by asking questions or changing the subject. Once you get past all this stuff THEN you can be cocky/funny whereas if you started out cocky/funny it’s too adversarial.
Now, are there girls out there handing over phones and issuing commands with no intention of furthering the interaction? Of course, but until you gather the ability to recognize them right away have fun experimenting with different types of responses.
That said, when you do recognize this or you are simply not interested in the girls, I admit it’s a guilty pleasure of mine to dismiss them (assuming they were rude to begin with).
I didn’t mean to harp on this one scenario but it illustrates my point.
Moving on, here are some things to work on while you are out.
Stand around with your arms crossed or your hands in your pockets, one looks standoffish and intimidating/closed, the other looks insecure and wimpy.
Lean in real close to the girl and act too excited to speak to her.
Think too much, if she’s speaking to you for more than just a pleasant “what’s up” she’s interested.
Drink too much, alcohol is a crutch, you will start drinking much more to fill in gaps or to appear busy while you’re standing around. Booze will help relax you but once you reach a certain point, your game will plummet.
Constantly look around/roam around. Girls are watching you, when you’re darting around and acting thirsty, it shows.
Approach and talk, keep it social. If a girl is bitchy to you roll your eyes and make a comment about going to charm school and move on.
Stand your ground: girls like to test men’s frame by making them move out of the way. Make them go around you. This isn’t about being a dick, this is about YOU.
Keep relaxed, confident body language. This stands out.
You should be doing this anyway but something that get’s overlooked in nightlife a lot is the relationships you build with the people working there. Bullshit with the bouncers, say something about “Don’t you have football practice in the morning?”. Be polite, tip them on occasion. These guys are your allies and can pull favors in lines and all sorts of things. Bullshit with the waitresses without hitting on them directly, stand out in a way that isn’t what they normally see. Recruit the bartenders immediately. Going up and asking their names after a few brief words, tip well, then when you go back and talk like you know each other, it looks good to the other girls that are waiting.
At any rate, if you are following the regimen I outlined in part one, you should have at least 4 weekends to go out.
Experiment with the Scientist mentality, see what works.
It would be great if you guys reading this would report back what works for you and what doesn’t in the comments section