Moving beyond the tourist visa: Doing business abroad
#1
I'm curious --- has anyone done business locally in a country they aren't from?

I see a lot of opportunity here in India, and am researching starting a "private limited" company and then hiring myself on a work visa.

There are a lot of complications though, such as:

- Requiring 2 people to start the company (single person company formations are not open to foreigners)
- Requiring a citizen to be a "director" in the company
- Lots of paperwork and document requirements (surmountable, but a pain)

On top of this, as a US citizen owning a foreign "corporation" with >50% US ownership leads to a complex tax situation called a "controlled foreign corporation" (CFC) from what I understand:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled...rt_F_rules

While it's way simpler to just stay on a tourist visa and work online, I'm drawn towards doing business locally...

Being a foreigner who is deeply involved with a country seems like it can lead to many lucrative businesses in the model of marketing a service in your current country to your former countrymen.

For example:

Americans exporting Panela from Colombia back to the US as a new fancy coffee-sweetener:
  https://www.starterstory.com/stories/how...hole-foods

Chinese in the US w/ a multi-million dollar (illegal) birth tourism business for US citizenship
  https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/31/us/an...urism.html

Y-Combinator startup helping immigrants in the US get credit
  https://techcrunch.com/2016/08/19/nova-c...u-s-credit

Helping foreigners start USA LLCs + Corporations and opening business bank accounts
  https://www.indiehackers.com/interview/h...9a3be77924

Conceirge service for digital nomads in Chiang Mai
  https://chiangmaibuddy.com

So in summary:

- Has anyone done business in a country they are not from?
- Any other examples of these types of businesses?
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#2
If your worldview is oriented based on experiences in Western countries, you're going to be in for a shock when you try to setup a business anywhere else.

The same sort of protection that politicians in my home country would be committing career suicide to even talk about is THE NORM everywhere else.

In addition to official measures to protect against foreign investments absolutely destroying local businesses simply by offering better quality services and products (something that simply doesn't come naturally in the third world), there are also lots of unofficial measures in place. For example, you may legally qualify to register a specific type of business, but the government office responsible for processing your application might decide to simply let it collect dust.

Once you are outside of Europe and North America (and South America to a large degree), nearly every country's policy towards immigration and foreign direct investment is FUCK YOU.
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#3
I'm interested and looking into this as well in VN.

That's one thing that really disappoints me with the whole digital nomad crew is they're oblivious to the local market opportunities (which are far more plentiful than back home). You don't need a brilliant idea, or have to be a skilled coder,etc.. there's just basic goods and services not being provided in these countries. Low hanging fruit.

What Suits says about corruption and potential headaches is largely true, but you just have to pick your country right. VN has opened up MOST industries for 100% foreign owned businesses. Not as cheap or quick as setting up a business back in the States, but very doable. Many expat entrepreneurs are doing well here.

For an American, you can get a 1 yr business visa for around $300 and explore the opps on the ground here, which is what I'm doing basically.
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#4
My thinking is you should always be partners with locals, and arrange things so they are replaceable but you are not. Usually this means you bring in foreign clients that locals could not acquire themselves, or you provide expertise that locals could never provide (high tech oil drilling techniques, etc).

My favorite example, which ties in with this forums focus on sex, is those wife hunting tours to Ukraine, Thailand and elsewhere, such as by Dream Connections and Loveme.Com. These companies are based in the USA (or other western country) and acquire USA and other rich clients, while the local partner acquires scammer "ladies" for the men to date and maybe marry (in most cases, pity the poor guys who actually carry through with the marriage). I believe this market is far from saturated.

In particular, I think there is a big market for medium term love tourism, versus short term sex tourism or long term wife hunting tourism. Dorky but well paid guys from the USA would pay to be introduced to girls in poor countries who would give them true girlfriend experience fake relationship during the guy's 2 week annual vacation. Unlike with those marriage companies, girls would be under strong pressure to put out (have sex) with guys they were dating so that the guy would go home with a smile and recommend the company to his friends. The guy could also propose marriage (rent first, then buy if satisfied with merchandise).

There are tons of dorky but well-paid guys in the USA as potential clients. Same guys who attend those PUA bootcamps. These guys cannot do regular sex tourism because they are too awkward and afraid to negotiate with hookers, or they are ashamed of paying. They need someone to hold their hand the whole way and also hide the fact that they are paying, so that they can pretend to themselves and their friends back home that they had a real girlfriend.

Dream Connections charges $5000 for their 10 day marriage tours, not counting airfare. The women get very little because they aren't pressured to have sex with guys. But with $5000, you could spend $1000 on hotel and other costs, $2000 to the girl and still have $2000 for yourself. Lets say 10 guys per your, 6 tours per year = $120K for you. From the girls point of view, she gets $12000/year for 6 * 2 weeks = 3 months work, which is good money in Ukraine, Thailand, Colombia, etc. Including airfare, guy is out like $6000, which is much cheaper than a wife who refuses sex and then divorces. On a per bang basis, not so great, but if we take into account all hours planning for and daydreaming in advance, then remembering later, client does well in terms of happiness per dollar spent. So everyone wins, which is the mark of a sustainable business. A business like this can build a brand and loyal repeat customer base, so highly resistant to competition.
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#5
That would actually be a good business in VN. Loads of women just looking to marry a nice, financially stable Westerner. They dont care if he's a chump.

I knew the dorkiest French canadian here who wifed up a pretty decent looking girl. This guy would have been an incel in the U.S. Short, fat, balding..no style. Viet girls just arent that looks orientated generally.
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#6
You can certainly advertise marriage-oriented, but there are already companies doing that. The weak spot with these companies is that, realistically, people from different cultures who can't speak each others language can't decide to marry in a week. So what happens is guys go on these tours and go home with nothing to show but some photos sitting at a table "dating" some girl plus the translator sitting between them.

My innovation is that the girls would be under strong financial pressure to pretend to like the guy, to the point of dragging him into bed. Of course, this means the girls are not actually marriage quality, but rather working girls. Doesnt matter, since girl will flake out later if the guy does propose marriage. $2000 for two weeks work csn buy sone very good acting abilities in Vietnam. Maybe you only need $1000. Just make the guy happy for a week so he remembers the trip fondly and tells all his friends, then send him a nice Dear John letter about "I enjoy sex with you so much (American man great in bed!) but I not ready for marriage yet, also grandmother sick, etc" after he leaves. If she doesn't make the guy happy (by having sex with him), no $1000 for her, or at a minimum, no future work for her.

Basically, you're acting as a pimp but not openly, so dorky guys can feel validated that girls find them sexually attractive enough that they don't have to pay for it explicitly. They're paying for a marriage tour, not a sex tour, or so they tell themselves. Sex just happened naturally because they were so sexually irresistible to the local girls. You need to coach the girls to emphasize that over and over: "I not know what happen to me. I from very conservative family. I only have sex one time, with boy from high school. Then I see you. You so handsome, more handsome than local man, I could not resist. You most handsome man I ever see. And you so big in man place! Men here not big like that. I like sex with you too much!"
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#7
^Lol viet women need no coaching in that area. My ego has been stroked to monumental proportions here. But I suppose I am somewhat of a specimen.Big Grin
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#8
I've thought about this idea, and I think you can make a really good income with the right set up. 

It would be a legit marriage agency though. Don't scam the men. 

You don't need to pay the girls. The opportunity for them to marry financially well off men and potentially leave their shit situations.

Patti Stranger, that old ugly broad on the E channel makes 1+ million a year being a "matchmaker". She charges dudes like 100K. 

There are 36 million millionaires in the world. Plenty of them are single men desperate to get married. 

Someone could probably set up a service and serve 5 people a year. Charge them 20K a piece to find them a suitable wife, and make 100k a year.
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#9
(10-25-2019, 02:21 PM)SpecialEd Wrote: That would actually be a good business in VN. Loads of women just looking to marry a nice, financially stable Westerner. They dont care if he's a chump.

I knew the dorkiest French canadian here who wifed up a pretty decent looking girl. This guy would have been an incel in the U.S. Short, fat, balding..no style. Viet girls just arent that looks orientated generally.

Are you talking about Alexandre Cazes?  Big Grin
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#10
(10-26-2019, 12:49 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:
(10-25-2019, 02:21 PM)SpecialEd Wrote: That would actually be a good business in VN. Loads of women just looking to marry a nice, financially stable Westerner. They dont care if he's a chump.

I knew the dorkiest French canadian here who wifed up a pretty decent looking girl. This guy would have been an incel in the U.S. Short, fat, balding..no style. Viet girls just arent that looks orientated generally.

Are you talking about Alexandre Cazes?  Big Grin

Lol, remember the benis measuring contest that ensued with him; literal grown men asking for photos for proof... haha.

(10-22-2019, 09:53 PM)Suits Wrote: If your worldview is oriented based on experiences in Western countries, you're going to be in for a shock when you try to setup a business anywhere else.

The same sort of protection that politicians in my home country would be committing career suicide to even talk about is THE NORM everywhere else.

In addition to official measures to protect against foreign investments absolutely destroying local businesses simply by offering better quality services and products (something that simply doesn't come naturally in the third world), there are also lots of unofficial measures in place. For example, you may legally qualify to register a specific type of business, but the government office responsible for processing your application might decide to simply let it collect dust.

Once you are outside of Europe and North America (and South America to a large degree), nearly every country's policy towards immigration and foreign direct investment is FUCK YOU.

Hmm not necessarily, off the top of my head, Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Ukraine, Georgia, amongst others are all coming into their own as foreign investment/ passport opportunity countries, most of which are starting to promote heavily, as well as investments in these places being a much more likely track to citizenship or residency than the UK, US, Canada, Aus/NZ, that is obtainable for a man of more normal means, that's to mention nothing of how difficult it is in Austria and Switzerland where you have to renounce your other citizenship and where they are notoriously xenophobic.

Some of the pacific island micro-nations also are pretty easy to get citizenship in as well.
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#11
(10-26-2019, 12:52 PM)Jerusalem Lothario Wrote:
(10-22-2019, 09:53 PM)Suits Wrote: Once you are outside of Europe and North America (and South America to a large degree), nearly every country's policy towards immigration and foreign direct investment is FUCK YOU.

Hmm not necessarily, off the top of my head, Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Ukraine, Georgia, amongst others are all coming into their own as foreign investment/ passport opportunity countries, most of which are starting to promote heavily, as well as investments in these places being a much more likely track to citizenship or residency than the UK, US, Canada, Aus/NZ, that is obtainable for a man of more normal means, that's to mention nothing of how difficult it is in Austria and Switzerland where you have to renounce your other citizenship and where they are notoriously xenophobic.

Are you an American who has never actually seen a world map?

Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Ukraine and Georgia are all literally INSIDE OF EUROPE.

If you'll go back to the portion of my post that you highlighted, I stated OUTSIDE OF EUROPE and NORTH AMERICA.

I could provide some diagrams if necessary.

(10-26-2019, 12:52 PM)Jerusalem Lothario Wrote: Some of the pacific island micro-nations also are pretty easy to get citizenship in as well.

Name one.
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#12
Quote:CITIZENSHIP BY INVESTMENT
Sadly, Vanuatu was hit by a massive cyclone in 2015 which left many of their 82 islands wiped out. Eleven people died and dozens more were injured on top of untold damage to the nation’s infrastructure.

To raise funds to rebuild, the government re-introduced a Citizenship by Investment program that offered so-called honorary citizenships to those who donated a six-figure amount to the government’s coffers.

This program ultimately had to be tweaked due to some issues among the intended market of Chinese citizens. Awhile back, there was a scandal involving a government worker selling citizenships to Chinese investors for anywhere from $10,000 to $300,000, and the country wanted to make sure everything was transparent.

This is one of those times when internet research often causes more harm than good; many sites still indicate the government’s previous position of “absolutely not” selling citizenship. As of 2017, Vanuatu citizenship is available by making a donation to the Vanuatu Development Support Program.

As of 2018, Vanuatu is working with cryptocurrency agents to allow citizenship investors to make their donation in Bitcoins. I expect more details to come out on this in the near future.

In fact, the islands offer quite possibly the most straightforward, easiest economic citizenship option in the world, with a passport possible in as little as 45 days. That’s faster than even the “rush option” among Caribbean passport programs.

Vanuatu has streamlined its due diligence procedures for would-be citizens and moved the application process online in an effort to reduce paperwork.

Getting a second passport here isn’t your cheapest option, but it is an interesting one: for $200,000 all-in, a single applicant can become a citizen within two months and enjoy visa-free travel to most of Europe including Russia.

(10-26-2019, 06:14 PM)Suits Wrote:
(10-26-2019, 12:52 PM)Jerusalem Lothario Wrote:
(10-22-2019, 09:53 PM)Suits Wrote: Once you are outside of Europe and North America (and South America to a large degree), nearly every country's policy towards immigration and foreign direct investment is FUCK YOU.

Hmm not necessarily, off the top of my head, Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Ukraine, Georgia, amongst others are all coming into their own as foreign investment/ passport opportunity countries, most of which are starting to promote heavily, as well as investments in these places being a much more likely track to citizenship or residency than the UK, US, Canada, Aus/NZ, that is obtainable for a man of more normal means, that's to mention nothing of how difficult it is in Austria and Switzerland where you have to renounce your other citizenship and where they are notoriously xenophobic.

Are you an American who has never actually seen a world map?

Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Ukraine and Georgia are all literally INSIDE OF EUROPE.

If you'll go back to the portion of my post that you highlighted, I stated OUTSIDE OF EUROPE and NORTH AMERICA.

I could provide some diagrams if necessary.

(10-26-2019, 12:52 PM)Jerusalem Lothario Wrote: Some of the pacific island micro-nations also are pretty easy to get citizenship in as well.

Name one.

The condescension is unnecessary; lest you read my post and see I'm not talking about the EU, much less, what most term, europe... Especially given the fact that's your the professed RVF China expert coming to a new forum with same name intact. Anyway.

Turkey serves as another example of a non-european country offering citizenship as well, but citizenship in the case of many people is irrelevant, they need residency more often than not, long term, or permanent. 

Cool it with the Anti-Semitic Remarks, bud.
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#13
(10-27-2019, 01:09 AM)Jerusalem Lothario Wrote:
(10-26-2019, 06:14 PM)Suits Wrote:
(10-26-2019, 12:52 PM)Jerusalem Lothario Wrote:
(10-22-2019, 09:53 PM)Suits Wrote: Once you are outside of Europe and North America (and South America to a large degree), nearly every country's policy towards immigration and foreign direct investment is FUCK YOU.

Hmm not necessarily, off the top of my head, Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Ukraine, Georgia, amongst others are all coming into their own as foreign investment/ passport opportunity countries, most of which are starting to promote heavily, as well as investments in these places being a much more likely track to citizenship or residency than the UK, US, Canada, Aus/NZ, that is obtainable for a man of more normal means, that's to mention nothing of how difficult it is in Austria and Switzerland where you have to renounce your other citizenship and where they are notoriously xenophobic.

Are you an American who has never actually seen a world map?

Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Ukraine and Georgia are all literally INSIDE OF EUROPE.

If you'll go back to the portion of my post that you highlighted, I stated OUTSIDE OF EUROPE and NORTH AMERICA.

I could provide some diagrams if necessary.

The condescension is unnecessary; lest you read my post and see I'm not talking about the EU, much less, what most term, europe... Especially given the fact that's your the professed RVF China expert coming to a new forum with same name intact. Anyway.

The EU is a inter-government organization. Europe is a continent that includes the nations of Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Ukraine and Georgia.

Here's a helpful diagram:

[Image: countries_europe_map.jpg]
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#14
You can buy citizenship in literally any corrupt or third world country so i don't think your point stands:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLQNYsxP9T0

Dane troll Mads Brugger made a documentary about it years ago; the fact that programs don't appear on the books doesn't mean they don't exist, just means its a question of greasing a few wheels.

And, I was talking about non EU countries, EU which is where 90 percent or so of foreigners are looking to get citizenship, along with US, Canada, Aus/ NZ.

The fact remains the most cost effective programs are not to be found in EU.

Europe is not just a continent and series of countries, but also a political idea, ergo the EU/ EEU and trans-atlanticism brussels-based globalism.

Hell, even russia offers a residency program for foreigners that costs basically nothing. That's something you're not going to hear about much if you consult mainstream sources.
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#15
(10-27-2019, 01:51 AM)Jerusalem Lothario Wrote: You can buy citizenship in literally any corrupt or third world country so i don't think your point stands:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLQNYsxP9T0

Dane troll Mads Brugger made a documentary about it years ago; the fact that programs don't appear on the books doesn't mean they don't exist, just means its a question of greasing a few wheels.

Irrelevant. Hypothetically, if you paid off the right government official with millions of dollars, you might be able to gain citizenship in places where it normally wouldn't be available to you, but that's irrelevant to a realistic discussion that would be of value to the members of this forum.

The title of this thread isn't "Citizenship Hacks for Multimillionaires." Your contributions are pointless and off-topic.

Please stop.

(10-27-2019, 01:51 AM)Jerusalem Lothario Wrote: And, I was talking about non EU countries, EU which is where 90 percent or so of foreigners are looking to get citizenship, along with US, Canada, Aus/ NZ.

What I said was that once you leave North America, South America and Europe, nearly every country's immigration/FDI policy is fuck you.

Your response was: "No, you're wrong, because there are several countries in Europe that allow immigration.

Now, with your ego suitable injured, you're producing confusing and increasingly irrelevant posts that have nothing to do with the topic on hand and don't magically make you any less wrong.


I'm not even sure what point you are even arguing anymore.

Your reading comprehension sucks. Please stop.

(10-27-2019, 01:51 AM)Jerusalem Lothario Wrote: Europe is not just a continent and series of countries, but also a political idea, ergo the EU/ EEU and trans-atlanticism brussels-based globalism.

For the purposes of this discussion, Europe is a continent and not a vague concept.

[Image: world-maps-with-continents-and-oceans-co...SrebzR.jpg]

Jerusalem Lothario busy posting in this thread:

[Image: hole.jpg]
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#16
Your understanding of citizenship: from what I understand you're a language teacher in china, without a second passport.

Quote:If your worldview is oriented based on experiences in Western countries, you're going to be in for a shock when you try to setup a business anywhere else.

Then you should understand the cheapest way to buy citizenship is corruption. In other words legit citizenship is unobtainable to most unless you have hundreds of thousands, even, millions of dollars. Or you get it from descent or marriage or permanent residency. The latter of which entail huge costs or long time living in country.

Quote:Once you are outside of Europe and North America (and South America to a large degree), nearly every country's policy towards immigration and foreign direct investment is FUCK YOU.

I already told you several non European countries that offer citizenship, Turkey and Vanatu for example. Hong Kong, Singapore and UAE are other examples. Facebook cofounder, eduardo saverin, took singapore citizenship.
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#17
(10-27-2019, 02:27 AM)Jerusalem Lothario Wrote: Your understanding of citizenship: from what I understand you're a language teacher in china, without a second passport.

Incorrect.

(10-27-2019, 02:27 AM)Jerusalem Lothario Wrote:
(10-27-2019, 02:27 AM)Suits Wrote: If your worldview is oriented based on experiences in Western countries, you're going to be in for a shock when you try to setup a business anywhere else.

Then you should understand the cheapest way to buy citizenship is corruption. In other words legit citizenship is unobtainable to most unless you have hundreds of thousands, even, millions of dollars. Or you get it from descent or marriage or permanent residency. The latter of which entail huge costs or long time living in country.

[Image: giphy.gif]

(10-27-2019, 02:27 AM)Jerusalem Lothario Wrote:
(10-27-2019, 02:27 AM)Suits Wrote: Once you are outside of Europe and North America (and South America to a large degree), nearly every country's policy towards immigration and foreign direct investment is FUCK YOU.

I already told you several non European countries that offer citizenship, Turkey and Vanatu for example. Hong Kong, Singapore and UAE are other examples. Facebook cofounder, eduardo saverin, took singapore citizenship.

First, I'm aware that some countries outside of Europe, North America and South America do offer the opportunity to acquire local citizenship. Which is why I used the word "nearly" in my original post.

Second, the options are mostly not very good. Singapore offers the opportunity to acquire local citizenship, but this requires being a highly desirable professional or an investment of a million dollars. Hong Kong offers only PR and not citizenship. And anyone looking to acquire Hong Kong permanent residency right now is nuts.

The countries with a local economy that offers actual opportunities are usually the ones with the closed doors. Sure, some places that are desperate for money and have little to offer have swung the door wide open, but how does that really benefit anyone other than someone with Three Flag Theory fantasies?
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#18
Correct me then what's your story? You're a language teacher in china last time I checked from Canadistan.

Fact of the matter is your cheapest citizenship you can by is basically 200k or more. Even for a shitty one.

Almost all opportunities for citizenship are expensive, US, Canada and UK and Aus/NZ it ends up being in range of 500k to 2 mil, even a shitty country like Bulgaria is expensive.

Most countries are eager to sell citizenship so they can enrich their coffers, but it comes at a high price.

The US loves foreigners so much it literally lets chinese women pop out babies, and lo and behold they become citizens!
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#19
(10-27-2019, 03:00 AM)Jerusalem Lothario Wrote: Correct me then what's your story? You're a language teacher in china last time I checked from Canadistan.

I'm not a language teacher. I am not in China and have not been for some time. The last country in Asia where I worked was Thailand and I was employed there in a field that had nothing to do with teaching or language or even education.

(10-27-2019, 03:00 AM)Jerusalem Lothario Wrote: Fact of the matter is your cheapest citizenship you can by is basically 200k or more. Even for a shitty one.

Almost all opportunities for citizenship are expensive, US, Canada and UK and Aus/NZ it ends up being in range of 500k to 2 mil, even a shitty country like Bulgaria is expensive.

Most countries are eager to sell citizenship so they can enrich their coffers, but it comes at a high price.

The US loves foreigners so much it literally lets chinese women pop out babies, and lo and behold they become citizens!

Who cares? This is off-topic and irrelevant. This isn't a forum where millionaires talk shop.
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#20
Why is everyone arguing about citizenship? It isn't necessary to start a business abroad.
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