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PUA vs. Natural
#1
Wink 
Holy s, a StW forum !!! Awesome work guys.

Hope you don't mind I start with a controversial topic, which I would love to get opinions from both the pros and beginners in game... and see the types that would be coming here... Wink Only intend here to share my opinion, and don't seek making anyone angry if I touched something that's sensitive to them

I'm Brazilian and grew up with (mind i use oldschool vocabulary as my English is so so) a family of a playboy grand father and playboy dad. They were my first teachers of "game". Seeing how my mom kept pushing my dad to stop talking about that on the table while she smiled were the first proofs I got that women love unpredictability, genuine banters and a good sense of humor.

30 years have passed and my golden era is not over yet. But more and more now, especially in the last year, I see guys in internationals bars being plain fake or just creepy. They either wear a clown outfit to act too cool for school, or talk to other guys about PU youtube channel on body language, then proudly go home with the least attractive lady in the room, or most act like machomen but won't even bother approaching a girl. I can talk to them in less than 2 minutes and know what are their identity issues and who are their favorite PU or/and self-help authors. Most popular I heard last year are Return of Kings and Carnegie... THEN I hear about the sh*t ton of money they spend on learning more about PU lifestyle...

Question is...WHY!?????
What's the need for reading books on such topics? What's the need of following self-proclaimed alphas? There is no secret on how to approach perfect 10s;
-F**K your ego
-warm-up talking to others if you feel anxious
-enjoy the moment
-the only part of body language that truly matters is your eye contact
-don't be self-centered on the bed if you want her to help you look for a 3some partner

-if you need guidance, find a mentor that has more hobbies other than PU, video games excluded  
-If you need an idol to follow, follow what you see in the mirror and challenge your fears !

Any girl that's is hot on her own way and have some brain (yes you can find many with both assets in this world!), is used and tired of guys acting their confidence. If you need to act to her, act curious.

I joyfully slap my friend at the bar in front of everyone if he starts using PU terms, or comes with his upper-body super rigit as if his chest arrives at the venue half an hour earlier
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#2
Welcome to the forum Kaaal.

I had an interesting upbringing, kind of a natural/ not natural. When I was a kid, my mom used to bring me to restaurants and use me to hit on waitresses. He would have me tell them things like "your teeth are like the stars... they come out at night" "your nose is like the mississippi river... always running", basically teases like that. As a little kid of course the waitresses would think it was cute and he would get their number afterwards. I also had an older step brother who took me under his wing who was a great natural. When I was younger I could get any girl in the school, had kids come to me asking me to teach them how to be better with women. (I always tried but of course I couldn't help them because I had no idea what I was doing, it was just natural).

Then, I started playing video games and got addicted to one strategy game in particular. I became mroe anti-social and lost a lot of my skills. After that I kind of had to relearn everything, but this time I understood what I was doing. I actually used how I used to be for a baseline for how I wanted to become again. Cocky funny by david deangelo was the closest thing to do that. The mystery method stuff was crap (I read one of the books and it actually made me worse with women).

I think you can learn it, but you have to try to internalize it. And yes I agree that one of the most important things is body language. If you have bad body language, you can do everything else right and you will still fail. I also agree finding a mentor is great, it's great because "you are your closest 5 friends" and being around them you will pick up so many things subconsciously and begin adopting them that no matter what you will just become better with women.

But I don't agree with you on books. The problem with naturals is that a lot of times they dont understand why they are good with women. In usa it happens a lot that a jock is good with women. But after High school when he no longer has the status, his confidence goes down and he becomes bad with women because he never really understood what made him good with women in the first place. You need to get out there and make it happen, but you also need to understand why you are good with women. I think that's the ideal balance.

I'm not much better with women than I ever was as a natural and its simply because I understand at all times what I am doing wrong and what I am doing right.
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#3
I think natural is better. Success with women is not that hard of a science.

1) Outer

This is the easiest one to change. Basically get in shape, be well dressed and well groomed.

2) Inner

Make sure you are not a creep or act weird. Bare basics of social dynamics. After that, I feel this biggest thing is confidence (difference between being obnoxiously cocky) and having a no fucks given attitude. Need to be at a point where rejection doesn't bother you in anyway. Other important things are being able to make a girl laugh and having a dominant masculine personality.
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#4
Dash - Boom, well formulated. The theories could be fun to learn, but the practice is, actually it is, the best thing In life once you feel confident as f ?

20N - Cool story! What would be your best suggestion for books then when you need to remember why you were a natural before and no longer now? I did read one PU book a week after a break up from a long relationship. That's when I eventually learned about PU world and terms etc. This one was called TaoOfBadass. I like the reading, but not when it becomes technical at a nerd level like "to make her love you, you must do xxx then get her reply then do xxx".
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#5
(02-08-2017, 12:22 AM)Kaaal Wrote: Dash - Boom, well formulated. The theories could be fun to learn, but the practice is, actually it is, the best thing In life once you feel confident as f ?

20N - Cool story! What would be your best suggestion for books then when you need to remember why you were a natural before and no longer now? I did read one PU book a week after a break up from a long relationship. That's when I eventually learned about PU world and terms etc. This one was called TaoOfBadass. I like the reading, but not when it becomes technical at a nerd level like "to make her love you, you must do xxx then get her reply then do xxx".

Reading is good to get you started, but just for the basics and to get the right mindset: body language & confidence, abundance mentality, being the price, frame control. 

This type of Mystery Method PUA theory like "Go from Attraction A.1 to Comfort zone C.2" will just backfire and make you less natural and incongruent.

The game is played in the field.
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#6
As someone who wasn't a natural, it definitely helped to consume some PUA material - and most importantly, to put it into action.

The naturals I knew weren't great at explaining themselves, never mind the fact that they mostly relied on status or looks, which I didn't have.

In fact, by consuming and implementing some PUA material, I was able to surpass them in some ways. I can talk to girls during the day and they can't, most obviously. They'll even basically admit to bouts of one-itis, whereas I know from the experiences of guys on the Internet that that can be debilitating.
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#7
(02-08-2017, 12:22 AM)Kaaal Wrote: Dash - Boom, well formulated. The theories could be fun to learn, but the practice is, actually it is, the best thing In life once you feel confident as f ?

20N - Cool story! What would be your best suggestion for books then when you need to remember why you were a natural before and no longer now? I did read one PU book a week after a break up from a long relationship. That's when I eventually learned about PU world and terms etc. This one was called TaoOfBadass. I like the reading, but not when it becomes technical at a nerd level like "to make her love you, you must do xxx then get her reply then do xxx".


Well, I would say my books (at least a few). Like understanding sexual attraction, just teaches what exactly makes a guy attractive to women. From not my books, I don't really know. I'm like you, I like the books that teach you not only what to do, but why you need to do it. That's the type of stuff that sinks deep into my subconscious and I don't forget. I haven't really needed these books, for a long time, the last game book I really enjoyed was by David Deangelo, double your dating and it was because it taught cocky funny, which is my natural way to flirt with women explained.

@262, yeah I think you just summed it up right there
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#8
Naturals are normally a one trick pony. Except that trick works very well for them and they shamelessly keep doing it over and over Smile
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#9
I am a big fan of Natural game. I think that PUA tactics and tricks are needy. The reason for this is because:

1. It is needy. If you're comfortable with yourself why would you but on a fake clown game. It is also needy because you need to do tricks to impress here and is also pedestalization of the girl. The girl can feel this and will come off as creepy and needy.

2.  Most people who use PUA tactics and lines normally end up with needy girls. I think using PUA techniques would get you laid but you would definitely get needy girls that are just needy and thirsty. 

Before I got into Natural 'authentic' game I use to use PUA tricks. I think a good book on this is Mark Manson, Models and Steve Jabba, Primal Seducation . 
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#10
Im pretty sure "natural" is going to win this. Simply because we all want to be natural Lol. Ok my take on this. I was EXTREMELY shy growing up. Even if girls showed me interest or even flat out asked me out I would brush it off or even reject them. Growing up 21+ something went off in my head. I was lonely and unlike school where there are girls around all the time, there weren't any girls around. Something very big was missing. I had to research and work on myself. That's where pickup came in. Pickup showed me its not all about looks. Its all about feeling. Mainly how your feeling in the moment with a girl. If your nervous you come off creepy. If your calm and comfortable it doesn't matter what you say she will be comfortable. I think that's where naturals and pickup cross paths. The reason naturals are "naturals" is because they are comfortable in their own skin. I needed pickup because I'm naturally shy.
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#11
I don't think it matters if you are either "natural" or "PUA" as long as the method you use is effective. Even trying to categorize them into different schools of thoughts seems like a limited view what seduction is about.
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#12
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(02-08-2017, 07:59 PM)TheManWhoSoldThWorld Wrote: I don't think it matters if you are either "natural" or "PUA" as long as the method you use is effective. Even trying to categorize them into different schools of thoughts seems like a limited view what seduction is about.

Nice point. Duly noted.

Shaen - PUA if I define him using only my own experiences, is the guy I see talking to a girl with good eye contact and body language, but his mind seems to be elsewhere, perhaps inside his brain's PU library thinking; "ok she's done this, now I should do this". I can't read people's mind lol, but I guess it's the microexpressions that tells me that when I see a guy. But now the more I learn about PUA, the more I see that I'm being narrow minded by my own experiences in the bars. So the PUA who ends up feeling like a natural and remembers by heart all he learned in PU, will be the Pelé of seduction.lol so PU wins? The combination of both? This is becoming a philosophy subject..haha
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#13
I agree that really internalizing it and knowing exactly what you are doing to get the girl are the ideal ways to go. The brain is really powerful and I think that guys can become naturals with thousands of hours of practice. There may be some things different, but overall I have seen guys do it. It's the ideal scenario because you won't ever lose it because you understand what you are doing right. I have seen naturals lose it because of some big event happening that rocks their life. They lose the very thing girls found irresistable and have no idea how to get it back.
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#14
Kaaal I have to agree with you. I have also seen/heard guys try and come up with the "right" thing to say, and at that point I can tell she has lost interest. That is also the same time he lost eye contact and he gets nervous. I've been there. I remember one time awhile back. I saw a guy get completely blown out. When she left I went up to him and bought him a beer and told him you did better then 90% of the other guys here. You had the balls to approach! Canned routines can ruin a man's chance big time. I usually use an opener that I know works. It takes the edge off the approach anxiety. Once I get her to smile or laugh I just go into normal conversation with teasing sprinkled in. On the flip side I would be nothing without pickup. I was so shy and still am on the introvert side of the spectrum.
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#15
Do some of you feel like you have more of a natural day or night game, or if your natural, situation doesn't matter ?
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